Need to learn how to unlearn Civ3

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Hi all,


Ok I have a problem. I find my self going to war a lot in Civ3 1.17f. I play on Regent level on small continents and chose a random civ everytime I play. I usually try to play the role of peaceful builder but always find myself getting attacked or being forced into wars.

My problem is balancing my production to give me an adequate defense force (so the AI won't declare war on me) and building up my infrastructure. Can't seem to get it right. It seems that if I concentrate on building defenses I lose out on wonders and land. If I decrease my military production I get one or two wonders, grab a decent amount of land (7-8 cities), but end up getting my "hey nanoo nanoo" handed to me by the AI.

I try to make a reasonable effort on trading techs/luxuries with the AI. I give into their demands until I have a large enough army but I always end up either not having any strategic resources in my borders or having the AI gang bang me.

What can I do to improve my game?

 

[BillChin]

Here are some basic strategies for a successful early war:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15439

There are three in the first post, a fourth in the follow up and an update for patch 1.17f and the new fast retreat rules.

1) Warrior Gambit
2) Swordsmen Conquest
3) Horsemen Conquest (now combined arms)
4) Open land build out

For a small world, Regent level, Warrior Gambit and Swordsmen Conquest are very effective strategies.

Early wonders are not that important unless you want to go for a cultural victory. It is much easier to capture them than to build them yourself.

 

[God]

I also play on Regent on small sized map or standard.
Th only ancient wonder i build is the Great Library. Often in the beggining of the game the AI bullies me alot, but after i have quite a few cite, my main ones produce wonders, while my smaller ones produce spearmen, then improvements, then more spearmen.

On my size 8+ cities i usualy have 3 spearmen. 5+ 2 defenders and 1 defender for smaller towns.
I usually have conquest games, but switch to monarchy and build some swordsmen and such on your borders. THey'll scare off the AI.

 

[Zouave]

I do something similar. But I have somewhat fewer defensive units and more offensive connected to the road net for quick massing. I try to always include several spearmen/pikemen in any offensive for holdiong territory and absorbing counterattacks.

But for those who go for the Great Library, if you don't start with Bronze Working, do you go for that first and THEN Alphabet/Writing/Literature - or do you go straight for A/W/L??

The former risks not finished the GL; the latter makes you vulnerable. Which is best?

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

If I start out without Bronze Working then 8 times out of 10 I go for A/W/L and worry about BW later. I try to trade for it if I can but if there are too many civs nearby and not enough land then BW is priority for me.

 

[Park Ranger]

Been building the Great Library a lot lately, in attempts to get the one-city cultural victory. On regent level, I set my research on A/W/Lit, and hope for Masonry (the Pyramids are a good prebuild since the shield cost is the same as the GL) from goody huts. Can also sometimes get it in a trade. I'd say the success rate for this strategy is about 50%. Start building the Pyramids when Literature is twenty or so turns away, and hope no one else finishes it. I've actually managed to get the GL by 500 BC this way.

I suspect this wouldn't work on Monarch or higher, since the AI will finish Pyramids earlier.

Never had to worry about spearmen - having a LOT of warriors seems to keep the AI off my back long enough. By the time you finish researching writing, the other civ's will have BW, WC, Iron, Horse, from trading with each other. Best advice: get in on the trading!

 

[Mapache]

NONE of the early wonders is really necessary. On Emperor/Deity I just have to get along without. If they were so useful I would need them even more on the higher levels. I think that the GL was finished 600BC and Education was available 500BC in my last game. I cannot tell it exactly because I didn't have contact with *all* the A.I. players. So how many techs would I get for the many shields invested?
Isn't the GL in fact a bad deal?

 

[Park Ranger]

Originally posted by Mapache
I think that the GL was finished 600BC and Education was available 500BC in my last game.

This sort of hyper-tech advancement by the AI seems to occur (in 1.17f) as soon as you leave the comforts of Regent-level play. I've given up trying to play on Monarch level and above and am simply trying to make the game tougher by adding # of civs. Because, yeah, it sucks when you hit the middle ages in 500BC, and Industrial age in 500AD. Especially if you want to win by culture.

Culture, BTW, is the only reason I ever tried building the GL. I figure if you get it by 500BC, then in 500AD the 1000-yr bonus kicks in and its worth 12 cp/turn. This means, by 1950, the GL is worth 3600 cp alone. Having built it now about three different times, I find it does expire quickly but because I've pursued literature so single-mindedly, i still get 7-8 techs from it.

Anyway, GL won't help keep the AI's at bay. That seems to require a military larger than the free support allows, plus some very pro-active diplomacy. Even then, it seems some games that they are determined to get you. I lose a lot of games early on when I don't have iron and play a crowded world.

 

[ssmith619]

If you are used to a militaristic style of play, take the culture route for a spin. The first thing you build in all your cities is one type of warrior (and if you haven't noticed, one veteran warrior fortified in a city that has walls is almost invinsible in the early parts of the game), then a temple, then a barracks, then a settler (to repeat the process), then a library...yada yada yada...

Once your culture level is really high (oh, by the way, always build wonders when you can because the culture really adds up later in the game) you can start to take over cities with low culture. It really does work, and then you can take over cities that are your ally's, and then don't seem to give a damn!

That's just a pacifistic newbie's stance, but it seems to work fairly well for me. Plus, isn't it annoying when you go to war and all of those pretty little roads and mines that took so long to build get pilliaged?

Stephen Smith
SSmith619@hotmail.com

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Thanks everyone for your help so far!

I'll print out all the suggestions here and try 'em out in my next game.

ssmith619 I'll give culture a chance. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Loopy]

Actually, going the pure builder route is doable. The key is to give in to all tribute demands and requests. Trade as much as possible too.

I usually play everything random on a huge map at emperor level (1.17f patch). In my most recent game I won a diplomatic victory without ever having gone to war. My military force was one spearsman in each town up until infantry. At that point I added a single infantry unit to each town. Wonderwise, I only had modern wonders (the last four ending at the UN). My final score was right around 5000.

 

[Alexnm]

Originally posted by Loopy
Actually, going the pure builder route is doable. The key is to give in to all tribute demands and requests. Trade as much as possible too.

Yes, that's how I won my most recent victory. The AI will be always bullying you, but if you give in to their demands and give them a couple of gifts from time to time, they'll pretty much leave you alone.

And in the late game, when I manage to have a stronger military, the AI won't demand too many things, anyway...