Never Generate A Great Merchant

[Seabastian Civ]

Anytime I go Tradition, which I do the majority of the time, I always use my capital as a great person factory. Nothing surprising there, but I never put any specialists into the Great merchant buildings. I'd always rather get Artists, Scientists, and Engineers.

GM building is lackluster especially mid/late game, trade missions are risky in MP and the cash is often only a few turns worth. Sure if all the CSs want a great merchant, I might devote some specialists to one, but otherwise, I just don't get it.

Am I missing something?

 

[I_qua_I]

I'm not sure, but if you are then I'm in the same boat. I never want nor seem to need one. I don't even generate them for the CS quests as it will up the cost for any others I'm hoping to generate. This is probably the great person that needs the most buffing or revising right now (the great admiral being a close second.)

 

[Gucumatz]

To be frank not really :/.

Sometimes if you have a lot of faith you might want to buy a GM though in the late game (from the commerce tree) to fulfill city state quests/get some gold to upgrade units/buy units for an attack you are preparing for

But otherwise generating one on purpose the normal city way just doesn't seem like its worth the resource time spent

 

[Silverfuturist]

"Sometimes if you have a lot of faith you might want to buy a GM though in the late game (from the commerce tree)"

I do this often - when it is clear I will not be generating enough faith to buy another great scientist before the game ends, I buy a great merchant with faith. The 3rd-4th great sci takes tons of faith, while the 1st great merchant takes a much lesser amount of faith.

 

[Gamewizard]

Complete the commerce tree for double gold trade missions. Austria in particular would be a monster late game if you had gone piety and then finished commerce. Rack up the faith points, buy a Great Merchant, trade mission, gold gift to ally, buy it outright.

 

[kamex]

Agreed. i think late game with completed Commerce you can get 1000 gold from a mission plus the influence, which is okay I suppose, but you will probably make much more gold from a GA if you've gone wide, (especially with one of the GA extenders)...

I would plant an earlier one unless a special circumstance occurred where i really needed a CS ally. Problem with that is if you complete Commerce, and a riverside trading post gives only a little less gold than a Custom House, and you can spam trading posts...

 

[PhilBowles]

I often produce them as Sweden, since they're the GP I'd mostly use for CS influence anyway and I'd rather give them away than scientists. I think they have been weakened fairly substantially by virtue of the CS changes, since they no longer give an amount of influence that's valuable enough to justify the investment of producing them.

 

[Rooftrellen]

I often produce them as Sweden, since they're the GP I'd mostly use for CS influence anyway and I'd rather give them away than scientists. I think they have been weakened fairly substantially by virtue of the CS changes, since they no longer give an amount of influence that's valuable enough to justify the investment of producing them.

But...you can produce a GM and give it away OR produce a GS and have the option of giving it or using it yourself. It's still better to make the scientists, since they give you options.

That being said it really depends on what you want to do. Getting a CS ally and an influx of gold could change a game in some situations. Their building is lackluster, but having the option is never bad. No GP (that you can get by working specialists) can produce more happiness or faith than the GM with a trade mission to a mercantile or religious CS (and cash that could be used on lots of things, including buying off another), and a GA is going to have a hard time producing more short term culture than a cultured CS. I'd be at a total loss as to how wide your empire would have to be to get more science from extra food...way too many variables.

GM will still almost always win in the short term, though, and sometimes that can be more valuable than long term gains. A GM that gives you the slight edge in culture (from a CS) to complete the autocracy tree just 10 turns before Monty gets nukes online is huge, if also situational.

 

[Osamu]

I never put one in specialist slot, and will be sad if one of the puppet pop GM (thus increase next GPP).

I want to try one game aiming for full commerce policy tree, focusing on gold and trading post. Want to figure out whether gold (which has versatile use) can offset any other aspects in the game.

Any idea which Civ to try and which strategy?
I was thinking about Sweden to abuse GP, or Carthage for +3 hammer on coastal city.

 

[MadDjinn]

Agreed. i think late game with completed Commerce you can get 1000 gold from a mission plus the influence, which is okay I suppose, but you will probably make much more gold from a GA if you've gone wide, (especially with one of the GA extenders)...

I would plant an earlier one unless a special circumstance occurred where i really needed a CS ally. Problem with that is if you complete Commerce, and a riverside trading post gives only a little less gold than a Custom House, and you can spam trading posts...

It's 2000 gold in the Info era.

So if you save a number of merchants you can power through the CSs for a Diplo win.

 

[EEE_BOY]

With Commerce finisher and Big Ben, you can rush buy military units with a few GM for late game domination win,

Edit: with the wonder (+15xp, xxxxgate, enabled in military tradition) + Ahalbama, you can purchase super super promoted units at super discounted price.

 

[Mesix]

I agree. I seldom produce a GM. When I play a tall Tradition game, I get three cities specialized for different great people (GS, GE, and GA). I often have my capital specialize for GE, my second city (hopefully near a mountain) for GS, and a third for GA (it can grow a bit later since most of the appropriate wonders come in the Renaissance and later). I may get 4-6 cities total, but three of them are really geared toward generating great people.

While I build some GM wonders, I don't typically focus a city on them. I also don't run many merchant specialists unless I am strapped for cash.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

Maybe play as Austria and you will change your mind

 

[RealHuhn]

I always use GMs whenever I finish the commerce tree and go for late game domination.

2000-2500 gold for a trade mission is worth 8-10 modern units or 4-6 nukes (autocracy + big ben).

 

[curwen]

i produce one when most CS want one.... perhaps have produced one by accident also
at deity
GE -> you can get the wonder you should not get
GA -> golden age (=gold + culture) or culture improvement
GS -> you can always use more beakers

GM -> nothing you cannot get from a GA, harder to get (less slot) and less flexibility (who know 10 turn before that you will need to ally this CS AND that this CS will not pop a task ally with someone you are in war with in the next 10 turns...) generaly when you NEED a CS you ally it asap (with task/gold) and cannot wait for GP pop....
as for the gold ... it is easy to lose it (adjacent CS are generaly ally with you or your ennemies... or hostile ....). It is hard enough with GP that i send only with an army or after using 1 or 2 conversion to lessen the cost if it is destroyed.... a GA is better golden age will also give culture which is generaly a better gold generator...

late game ... generaly conquest is done (even if computer do not know it ) ... or your army is big enough already... I never needed a gold influx so hard in late game when i play domination (and i do GA if i go for culture)... not sure i want one for science also (to buy 1 or 2 factories perhaps... but generaly i have the gold for it for my science city and one more...) perhaps with a different tech path ...

 

[PhilBowles]

But...you can produce a GM and give it away OR produce a GS and have the option of giving it or using it yourself. It's still better to make the scientists, since they give you options.

The trouble with that is that you're generating fewer GP points and so get the GPs less quickly. If you're producing two GP types, you have a bar for each - and as Sweden this also means you get the X% bonus on production of each GP type. You also usefully get the benefits of having market/bank specialists, which means more gold. Also, you get the first merchant specialist building, and complete the chain, sooner than you do the science building chain in most cases (since you need Stock Exchange long before you can research Plastics).

 

[AiTenshi1]

I never put one in specialist slot, and will be sad if one of the puppet pop GM (thus increase next GPP).

I want to try one game aiming for full commerce policy tree, focusing on gold and trading post. Want to figure out whether gold (which has versatile use) can offset any other aspects in the game.

Any idea which Civ to try and which strategy?
I was thinking about Sweden to abuse GP, or Carthage for +3 hammer on coastal city.

Gold offsets anything except for wonders. For everything else, gold is THE OP element of CiV because anything and everything else can be purchased either directly or indirectly.

 

[OmniPotent42]

I have faith-purchased them in the late game when going for Diplo or conquest victory. Even 800 gold is nice to upgrade units with in the Information Era. But in the early game, I never touch them. I suppose if you had the entire Patronage and Commerce Tree filled out you could focus on Great Merchant, do trade missions to get 1600 gold + influence, buy allied status, get another Great Merchant from the city state, repeat.

 

[PhilBowles]

I Even 800 gold is nice to upgrade units with in the Information Era.

This really says it all, if the best you can get from a late-game GP is a couple of unit upgrades. The fact that the GM bonus doesn't scale well is probably its critical failing - by the time you start generating GPs at all you're often reaching the point where the GM's value is starting to tail off. Others have mentioned trading posts by rivers - fine, but they take a while to tech to best effect. Getting early-game high gpt from a customs house long before you reach this level would be potent, but as it is you simply aren't going to be spawning GMs soon enough to make much use of that advantage. There's probably scope for using a GM as the Liberty finisher GP to rush-buy a settler, but that's about it.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think the relations boost with City-States is a good thing, especially since missions can be fairly random. It's the only good way to target the CS you want to be friendly with. Now maybe the bonus should be higher, but it still makes sense if you're going for diplo victory.