New and improved RoP backstab: now RoP-free!

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

@ Zachriel: the AI doesn't take reputation into account when trading wiht other AI. I've had a case where I sold contact, two turns later they had a trade going, I bought one into a war with the other - the deal couldn't be cancelled in that case.
Still, the same two AI formed an aliiance against me about 10 turns later (so my ally broke the treaty with me to make a deal with his enemy).


Please stop trying to explain the simple fact away that the AIs will always favor AIs over the human. Advocatus diabloi is a good part to play in discussions as these, but here the case is obvious!

 

[Random Passerby]

I fail to see how it's AI-to-AI favoritism. Most human players will learn that the AI doesn't abide by the 20-turn-rule and avoid tying themselves up with human-to-AI trades; the AI civs, however, will happily agree to all kinds of crazy deals, only to have their "ally" turn and attack them a turn or two later when an enemy buys them off.

 

[GeneralTacticus]

Japan declared war on the US before they attacked Pearl Harbor. About 15 minutes before, I believe. So even for the second-most famous sneak attack in recent memory, everything was handled as it should have been, diplomatically speaking. And, we don't seem to be holding any huge grudges against the Japanese (although admittedly, most people think it was a "true" sneak attack - so there goes my point I guess).

They didn't actually declare war, they just broke off diplomatic relations. The message arrived late because the Japanese embassy staff had been having a party the night before and there were only a couple of senior staff on duty when the message came through, who took some time to decode the message.

 

[Evincar]

Originally posted by Zachriel

Perhaps Joan didn't break the treaty, but merely cancelled it. I will often cancel treaties and declare war in the same turn. All done legally and according to the rules of war. And of course, on higher levels your wealth and knowledge are discounted, as if you were trading in Argentine Pesos v. Dollars and Deutschmarks for everyone else. This "inflation" is set by the player at the start of the game when choosing the level. The AI sees you as a poor beggar at the bargaining table.

Good explanation, but it's not the case. I had signed the deal about 10 turns ago and the RoP and MPP 2 turns before the backstab .

Still...that was a nice trial to explain it.

 

[Evincar]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.

Please stop trying to explain the simple fact away that the AIs will always favor AIs over the human. Advocatus diabloi is a good part to play in discussions as these, but here the case is obvious!

You know what we say here in Spain when we read this??

OOOOOOOOOLE!!!!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by Random Passerby
I fail to see how it's AI-to-AI favoritism. Most human players will learn that the AI doesn't abide by the 20-turn-rule and avoid tying themselves up with human-to-AI trades; the AI civs, however, will happily agree to all kinds of crazy deals, only to have their "ally" turn and attack them a turn or two later when an enemy buys them off.

How often does the AI turn on you? And how often does it cheat it's partners?

In my experiecne of over 80 games (yes I play a lot, a game a day or more), the AI will usually honor its deals with other AI, but will at least break 20% of the deals with me - even if I go out of my way to be nice!

Perhaps you play differently, but I do not see how. I tested this on several levels, and it is the same all over.

 

[kring]

Originally posted by Kilroy
However, for some perspective:

Japan declared war on the US before they attacked Pearl Harbor. About 15 minutes before, I believe. So even for the second-most famous sneak attack in recent memory, everything was handled as it should have been, diplomatically speaking. And, we don't seem to be holding any huge grudges against the Japanese (although admittedly, most people think it was a "true" sneak attack - so there goes my point I guess).

It was a "TRUE" sneak attack.

The Japanese did NOT declare war before the attack. They had planned on issuing an ultimatum: the 14 points, but it was never delivered. This was due to a miscalculation in the difference in times between Tokyo and Washington. Another fact that hindered them was the slow typist. Even so, the ultimatum was not a de facto DoW; it would have been an implied war threat.

I don't where you got your information. By the time the Japanese Ambassador tried to meet with Secy. of State Cordell Hull to deliver the ultimatum, Pearl Harbor had already been attacked.

The goal was to deliver the message 15 minutes early, but it didn'
t happen.

I have seen the AI sneak attack other civs myself, or heard about it from my advisor, even if it happened before I met them! He warns me about their treachery, but how I handle it is up to me.