New Civ Traits

[rhialto]

@mhida

I think I speak for a lot of people here when I go "huh?" Taking the first item, I can't see how it is workable. How do you define whether a population point is in food production or not, given the fact that tile workers don't produce just one item. Also, anything even loosely based on reality would have the entire world maximised on this trait in the early stages, as EVERYONE was a food producer in very ancient times.

The more I think about it, any system where players can manipulate their environment to gain/lose a trait will be open to abuse by munchkin gamers. Freeform preset (like SMAC) with an option to drop them all is the way to go.

 

[dh_epic]

I think the ability to pursue a trait completely changes the emphasis of the game -- it becomes a question of acquiring the best trait at the time as fast as possible, without investing too much more into pursuing that trait.

So I agree with rhialto: the idea of "pursuing" traits is dangerous, unless it's a continuous scale as opposed to a binary "yes or no" as to whether you have that trait. For example, if you have 56 military points, you get 5.6% bonuses to this or that, and if you have 23 economy points you get 2.3% bonuses to something else...

It's not as simple as "what would be cool". Traits can really get out of hand if you don't think about them in the context of the entire game.

 

[rhialto]

Even an incremental system like what dh epic just outlined would not work. Some (most?) of the trait bonuses do not lend themselves to such increments. At which increment does a city gain the extra shield for being industrious? Munchkin players will hit that point and work no further towards being industrious. Ditto for just about every other bonus.

 

[dh_epic]

Yeah, it would require an overhaul of the way traits work. After all, how do you get 86% more of an explorer unit as an expansionist?

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Perhaps for those "yes or no" features of traits, for your top two (or three, or whatever) you get that advantage, and then have some incremental advantages (such as increased commerce, shields, or food, or decreased chance of sinking in Sea and Ocean, or faster science, etc., etc., etc.) that depend on your rating for each trait.

 

[mhIdA]

rhialto
- Maybe you have a poll in forum, even I dont't see it yet, to know what a lot of people think. We must talk for ourselves, only that, but anyway.
- In ancient times most of population works on agriculture, so most of civs or even all we'll be agricultural in earlier game almost. But that don't mean a civ could be more militaristic or scientific, due the fact of population work on agriculture is a matter of choice of player or be randomized to AI civs.
- To define wether a population point is work on agriculture or not: suppose at start a city with a population of 10,000 sized 1, this means 10 popunits wich be allocated to farms, militaries, builders (allow construction of city improvements). If each popunit in farm produce 3 food in grassland terrain type, then we can manage how many farmers, militaries or builders we want, but have in mind how we want our population growth. Is a whole new concept.

dh_epic
I think my sugestions are easily measured to see the player civ traits. 1, 2, 3 or more traits? And if you see there are 3 levels in each trait, wich mean a civ couldn't acquire entirelly a trait. And the possibility of civs achieves as many traits they want is a way to balance the game, where expansionist and seafaring is the most unbalanced. So what is the best trait at a time?

The abilitie to pursue a trait vary accordingly geography (terrain type, costal or not), resources, their neighbours. Industrous? If yes all or most of all civs pursuit that trait, but that is a choice of player and if ther are a militaristic neighbour that enforce the player on militaristic trait and less industrious.
If there are a resource near a civ tend to become industrious, if the resource is import the commercial trait also become important and the militaristic trait now is less important.

The calculations to determine the traits each AI civs pursuit could be every 20 turns or at begining of each era to AI civs and player choices to human player.

 

[slyda]

I like your ideas Elgalad. Ifeel that they would inject a new energy into the game, though perhaps it might hard for the AI to be programmed to make the most of its traits. I can't really see the AI really doing well as a diplomatic civ no matter what the circumstances. Oh yeah for the militaristic general perhaps he could pay the support for some units or increase the powers of units fighting within that cities cultural boundries.

 

[rhialto]

If there are a resource near a civ tend to become industrious, if the resource is import the commercial trait also become important and the militaristic trait now is less important.

I can see this, at least in the early game, making traits a matter of luck, depending overwhelmingly on what special resources are spawned near your start location.

 

[mhIdA]

rhialto
Sameway you're right, even more in civs near coast wich become seafaring as my sugestion, but increase military spent or take the decision to import resources is not a matter of choices.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Overall, this is my idea:

However the traits are chosen, it would follow a pattern of ratings for each trait. Ratings would be determined by a number of Rating Points. The total number of Rating Points your civ has can only be altered by events that happen ingame.

Each trait would have two bonuses; a Metered bonus, which varies depending on your rating for that trait, and the Binary bonus, which is a yes-or no bonus. The two or three traits with the highest ratings are your Predominant Traits and you get the Binary bonus and the Metered bonus for your Predominant Traits. All others are secondary traits, and you get only the Metered bonus for those traits. In the event of a tie between traits, they are selected at random (so if you have the same rating for Industrious and Expansionist, either Industrious or Expansionist will be selected at random for the status of Predominant Trait).

IMPORTANT NOTE: You do NOT neccesarily get the highest-level Metered bonus for a Predominant Trait. So if Metered bonuses are on a five-level scale, you can have a level-four Metered bonus and still have that trait be a Predominant Trait.

And about to handle it at the beginning of the game: at the beginning, all of your traits are set to zero except three, which are hardwired into the civ, though you can repudiate these later.