New Feature Focus: The Art of War

[8housesofelixir]

That could, at shorter ranges, apply as early as the Early Industrial Era Howitzers or Mortars, which were originally designed to attack cities by lobbing explosives over the walls from a distance.
And if that trait also applies to strategic/heavy Bombers, one could recreate the Modern Era Strategic Bombing campaigns against enemy cities . . .
For Modern Era (post 1905 CE) Artillery representation what is needed is the ability to attack enemy units from off the battlefield, but it doesn't look like that is included in the Bombard trait.

As you said, currently, this trait is attached to the 2 Industrial Era artillery line units, Howitzer and Siege Artillery. Judging from the Bombard trait description, I think they can attack both Districts and Enemy Units. "Can bombard battlefield from outside the battle" probably indicates that Bombard units can participate in Tactical Map Battles, so they shall able to attack units as well.

For Contemporary Era, interestingly, Humankind doesn't have any generic modern artillery units - there is a modern EU, very likely a rocket artillery for China - but no generic modern artillery. I guess this is something being overlooked by the devs, and hope they can add in some modern artilleries in the future.

 

[Siptah]

Here is some modern artillery in the form of a missile launcher:

 

[8housesofelixir]

Here is some modern artillery in the form of a missile launcher:

IIRC that is the Chinese EU, a type of rocket artillery. But beside this one, there isn't any other modern generic artilleries.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

As you said, currently, this trait is attached to the 2 Industrial Era artillery line units, Howitzer and Siege Artillery. Judging from the Bombard trait description, I think they can attack both Districts and Enemy Units. "Can bombard battlefield from outside the battle" probably indicates that Bombard units can participate in Tactical Map Battles, so they shall able to attack units as well.

For Contemporary Era, interestingly, Humankind doesn't have any generic modern artillery units - there is a modern EU, very likely a rocket artillery for China - but no generic modern artillery. I guess this is something being overlooked by the devs, and hope they can add in some modern artilleries in the future.

The 'last' artillery in the game appear to be Howitzers and Siege Artillery in the Industrial Era. Since that Era also includes Biplanes but the Battleship comes in the Modern Era, I'm not entirely certain what the actual dates between the Eras are (the first military biplane of the most primitive type wasn't bought by the US Army until 1908, by which time the British were building their third class of Dreadnaught Battleships).

Since the modern artillery techniques date to the same period (1905 at Port Arthur for first combat use of indirect fire with forward observers) a case could be made that everything after that in tube artillery is covered, but it leaves out a lot of ballistic, ammunition, fire control and observation improvements from the 1930s to the present day. Among other things, average range of 'Howitzers' has gone from 10 kilometers to 25 kilometers, a 250% increase, and there are now artillery-deliverable minefields, anti-tank munitions, deep penetration shells against fortifications, and of course self-propelled artillery in all modern armies with vastly improved mobility.

Information on units actually in the game at this point is a little limited, because the last overall list I've seen is almost exactly a year old, and Lucy didn't show us anything from the last two Eras at all, so there is really no telling exactly what is going to be in the game after the Renaissance (Early Modern) Era. I would bet that there will be no changes in Emblematic Units simply because it would require a lot of both design and graphic resources to change those and then start all over trying to balance them before release.

 

[8housesofelixir]

The 'last' artillery in the game appear to be Howitzers and Siege Artillery in the Industrial Era. Since that Era also includes Biplanes but the Battleship comes in the Modern Era, I'm not entirely certain what the actual dates between the Eras are (the first military biplane of the most primitive type wasn't bought by the US Army until 1908, by which time the British were building their third class of Dreadnaught Battleships).

Technically speaking, Humankind's Industrial Era ended in 1918. So Industrial Era is from Industrial Revolution to WWI, and Contemporary Era is from WWI to today.

And as for Battleship: Currently, the naval unit tree in Humankind is lacking a lot of features. For instance, judging from the unit tree, it is quite obvious that the game doesn't have Destroyer while having Torpedo Boats. I think you definitely know that the name "destroyer" was derived from "torpedo boat destroyer", so that's a important part of naval history missing; the placement of "Battleship" is kind of a similar issue, it might just covers all the battleships from HMS Dreadnaught to USS Missouri. I do hope the devs can fill up the naval unit tree properly in the future.

a case could be made that everything after that in tube artillery is covered, but it leaves out a lot of ballistic, ammunition, fire control and observation improvements from the 1930s to the present day.

That's why I hope the game can included a generic Contemporary Era artillery in the future. Modern artillery is still quite common on the battlefield across the world, M119 and M777 Howitzers for instance.

 

[7daysofwar]

Weird but late question, but how does battles work in multiplayer? So if I am laying with friends and they have a battle at the other side of the continent and I am currently at peace. Do I have to wait until they finish their battle? I can't find anything about it and since this is a talk about war I think I might can ask it here.

 

[Uberfrog]

Weird but late question, but how does battles work in multiplayer? So if I am laying with friends and they have a battle at the other side of the continent and I am currently at peace. Do I have to wait until they finish their battle? I can't find anything about it and since this is a talk about war I think I might can ask it here.

You will have to wait for them to end their turn. I recommend both of you activating quick movement and combat if you are planning on a lot of war as it really cuts down the time taken to fight battles.

 

[Uberfrog]

Actually scratch the above — I thought you were talking about Civ 6!

That will teach me to check the thread I am replying to...

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

Weird but late question, but how does battles work in multiplayer? So if I am laying with friends and they have a battle at the other side of the continent and I am currently at peace. Do I have to wait until they finish their battle? I can't find anything about it and since this is a talk about war I think I might can ask it here.

Yes, you may have to wait for other players to finish their battles. This is one reason why we have limited battles to three battle rounds per strategic turn, spread over multiple turns, so that players not involved in the battle will not have to wait through the entire battle at once. (Another reason for that being that it ties into the new reinforcement system.) With only three combat rounds, the waiting times will hopefully not be too long, and major battles should not be that common either.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Yes, you may have to wait for other players to finish their battles. This is one reason why we have limited battles to three battle rounds per strategic turn, spread over multiple turns, so that players not involved in the battle will not have to wait through the entire battle at once. (Another reason for that being that it ties into the new reinforcement system.) With only three combat rounds, the waiting times will hopefully not be too long, and major battles should not be that common either.

Also point out, that the earliest 'Army' you can build starts at 4 units, so with 3 Battle Rounds, there's a good chance of a decisive Victory (destroying all 4 opponent units) in 3 rounds. Later, when Armies are apparently up to twice that size or more, 3 rounds will probably not allow enough time to destroy the enemy, and the battles will tend to be more drawn out - neatly replicating the experience of the Industrial and later periods IRL in the World Wars and 'Mass Battles' of Napoleonic Wars and later. This also, I suspect, means that the 'Reinforcement system' is going to be very, very important in the last half of the game: it's the equivalent of having Reserves you can throw in to tip the battle in the second or later 3-turn Battle Rounds.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The 'last' artillery in the game appear to be Howitzers and Siege Artillery in the Industrial Era. Since that Era also includes Biplanes but the Battleship comes in the Modern Era, I'm not entirely certain what the actual dates between the Eras are (the first military biplane of the most primitive type wasn't bought by the US Army until 1908, by which time the British were building their third class of Dreadnaught Battleships).

Since the modern artillery techniques date to the same period (1905 at Port Arthur for first combat use of indirect fire with forward observers) a case could be made that everything after that in tube artillery is covered, but it leaves out a lot of ballistic, ammunition, fire control and observation improvements from the 1930s to the present day. Among other things, average range of 'Howitzers' has gone from 10 kilometers to 25 kilometers, a 250% increase, and there are now artillery-deliverable minefields, anti-tank munitions, deep penetration shells against fortifications, and of course self-propelled artillery in all modern armies with vastly improved mobility.

Information on units actually in the game at this point is a little limited, because the last overall list I've seen is almost exactly a year old, and Lucy didn't show us anything from the last two Eras at all, so there is really no telling exactly what is going to be in the game after the Renaissance (Early Modern) Era. I would bet that there will be no changes in Emblematic Units simply because it would require a lot of both design and graphic resources to change those and then start all over trying to balance them before release.

Well considered how loopsided something like Gulf War could be even though Iraq equipment not that old from what I can tell but still ended up extreamly loopsided, what may look like a few decades behind may end up to be an enormous difference. It would be very hard to represent such difference in a game that try to cover 6 time periods.

 

[7daysofwar]

Yes, you may have to wait for other players to finish their battles. This is one reason why we have limited battles to three battle rounds per strategic turn, spread over multiple turns, so that players not involved in the battle will not have to wait through the entire battle at once. (Another reason for that being that it ties into the new reinforcement system.) With only three combat rounds, the waiting times will hopefully not be too long, and major battles should not be that common either.

Do you mean with "three battle rounds" as is in three turns of battling or three times the fives turns of battling we had in the open devs (if I remember that correctly)

Also point out, that the earliest 'Army' you can build starts at 4 units, so with 3 Battle Rounds, there's a good chance of a decisive Victory (destroying all 4 opponent units) in 3 rounds. Later, when Armies are apparently up to twice that size or more, 3 rounds will probably not allow enough time to destroy the enemy, and the battles will tend to be more drawn out - neatly replicating the experience of the Industrial and later periods IRL in the World Wars and 'Mass Battles' of Napoleonic Wars and later. This also, I suspect, means that the 'Reinforcement system' is going to be very, very important in the last half of the game: it's the equivalent of having Reserves you can throw in to tip the battle in the second or later 3-turn Battle Rounds.

Sorry for quoting but wasn't it like if you had another group of units nearby that they could join the battle as well or am I remember that incorrectly from the open dev? I also appreciate the fact that you explain it with historical view.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well considered how loopsided something like Gulf War could be even though Iraq equipment not that old from what I can tell but still ended up extreamly loopsided, what may look like a few decades behind may end up to be an enormous difference. It would be very hard to represent such difference in a game that try to cover 6 time periods.

I was still in the US Army during the First Gulf War and can tell you exactly what the Iraqi Army's problem was: they had no experienced NCO corps, were led by officers appointed and promoted for their political reliability instead of their tactical or strategic ability, and their enlisted personnel were virtually all draftees with less than 2 years' military experience and very little practical training. It was like a high school basketball team going up against an NBA team, only bloodier.

Games in general do a good job of discriminating amongst all the various weaponry in history, but largely overlook the far more important variations in experience, morale, doctrine, training levels and leadership at the tactical level - the so-called "soft factors" - that multiply the effect of the weapons. Consequently, gross mismatches like that between the Iraqis and the (then) professional US military or, for example, Alexander the Great's professional army and the Persians at Gaugamela are hard to recreate.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Do you mean with "three battle rounds" as is in three turns of battling or three times the fives turns of battling we had in the open devs (if I remember that correctly)



Sorry for quoting but wasn't it like if you had another group of units nearby that they could join the battle as well or am I remember that incorrectly from the open dev? I also appreciate the fact that you explain it with historical view.

I believe they have settled on 3 'battle rounds' within each Game ('strategic') Turn, and, after that turn if the battle has not been resolved, nearby units can join the battle as reinforcements. @8housesofelixir and I have also been discussing the possibility of, during the later stages/Eras of the game, modern long-range firepower like Artillery or Air Power or naval gunfire (Battleship) support can also 'reinforce' the battle.