New gameplay opportunity?

[andrewv42]

Hey,
I tend to play on the Monarch difficulty, although I can handle Emperor, but recently each of my games have started to become much like each other. They generally follow the same research pattern because, to me, it is the best path to pursue.

Usually I go for bronze working, and then the Republic Fling (I usually make it, too) and mop up the remaining techs to research, with a priority on techs such as map making, iron working and literature if I havn't acquired them already from the AI or from goody huts.

In the Middle Ages, I rush for Sistine Chapel with Monotheism -> Theology. I then research Feudalism -> Printing Press -> Education -> Astronomy -> Navigation -> Banking -> Economics -> Democracy. Somewhere along the line, I might purchase Chivalry and Music Theory from the AI.

The thing is, though, I'm really looking for some variety now. From here on, it's an easy run to industrial, and I usually get bored of the game and begin anew after I complete Theory of Evolution or Hoover Dam. I'd like to now if there's another path of research I can follow which would offer a different experience to me; something that won't necessarily lead me to a warmonger's doom.

 

[Maimonides]

The best advice is to try some of the scenarios & mods that players have created. Some of them are really great. That's what I do when I get bored of playing the regular game.

 

[templar_x]

andrew - simply try Demigod difficulty and you´ll probably find it´s a totally different game. you´ll have to develop whole new strategies, research paths and build orders in order to achieve what you can now do on Monarch.

templar_x

 

[Spoonwood]

Templar_X has some good advice. You could also play a game for the HoF. What's victory condition do you usually desire? And what do you mean by "warmonger's doom?" And why do you build the Sistine Chapel? You could try a 0 science game. I honestly see a lot of optional tech and unnecessary research there. You could go Republic slingshot, Literature-Currency-Monotheism-Theology-Education-Banking-Chemistry-Physics-Theory of Gravity-Magnetism. Maybe you'll need to reserach Maths, Construction, Astronomy, or Gunpowder, but you can pretty much trade for the rest, including Feudalism (multiple AIs having it helps). A bunch of those optionals only need researched if you're trailing behind, playing an OCC, or a 20k game.

 

[Aabraxan]

I'd even suggest just bumping up to Emperor. That was a big change for me. There are also variants you could try: OCC, 5CC, NOT (No Optional Techs), Zero Science. I would suggest All-War, but it sounds like you're tired of warmongering, if I understand "warmonger's doom" correctly. I may not, though. The thing about AW is that trading goes out the window. I usually allow myself trading on initial contact, DOW by the end of the turn, and never make peace. I've seen some games with no initial trading, though.

Like Spoonwood stated, there are lots of optional techs in your list. When I read your list, I would have guessed a peaceful VC. What's your VC? Why research Demo and PP? (I don't have the tech tree in front of me, it's early, & I can't remember if PP is required. I don't think it is, but someone may correct me here.) Why build the Sistine Chapel?

 

[andrewv42]

Thanks for all the replies!
I'm a pretty terrible warmonger, which is what I meant by, "Warmonger's doom." I've had a few games turn out badly because of warmongering.

I'm actually playing on my own little mod right now, with some new units and civ flavours, although it doesn't really change gameplay much. I think what I'll do is play a game on Emperor or Demigod and see how I perform.

Templar_X has some good advice. You could also play a game for the HoF. What's victory condition do you usually desire? And what do you mean by "warmonger's doom?" And why do you build the Sistine Chapel? You could try a 0 science game. I honestly see a lot of optional tech and unnecessary research there. You could go Republic slingshot, Literature-Currency-Monotheism-Theology-Education-Banking-Chemistry-Physics-Theory of Gravity-Magnetism. Maybe you'll need to reserach Maths, Construction, Astronomy, or Gunpowder, but you can pretty much trade for the rest, including Feudalism (multiple AIs having it helps). A bunch of those optionals only need researched if you're trailing behind, playing an OCC, or a 20k game.

I see what you mean... usually in Monarch games I'm ahead in technology, and I go for techs such as Economics and Navigation so I can crack Smith's Trading Company, and trade world maps with everyone for a hunk of gold. Printing Press can be useful too; just yesterday, I traded communications to one civ in exchange for Invention.

I'll also miss out on most of the optional techs this time.

Like Spoonwood stated, there are lots of optional techs in your list. When I read your list, I would have guessed a peaceful VC. What's your VC? Why research Demo and PP? (I don't have the tech tree in front of me, it's early, & I can't remember if PP is required. I don't think it is, but someone may correct me here.) Why build the Sistine Chapel?

Sistine Chapel is great help with the extra happiness... I'm not sure why I shouldn't build it. If not, then what else should I go for?
My victory conditions are Domination, Conquest, Diplomatic, Space Race and Cultural. I usually play on large maps, and prefer epic games (though, like I said, I lose interest mid-Industrial) Yeah Printing Press is required for Democracy. Although I suppose I could trade for it with another civ, I always prefer to get it quickly, because it offers substantial corruption and unit cost benefits compared to Republic.

 

[Spoonwood]

Sistine Chapel is great help with the extra happiness... I'm not sure why I shouldn't build it.

Luxuries and markets usually work best. Also, the Sistine Chapel *only* increases contendness (there exists a slight difference between content and happy citizens) in cities that already have a cathedral. Do you really need all those cathedrals *and the extra content citizens from the Sistine Chapel*? I can see cathedrals making sense in a 100k game, and they can come in handy in some games. But, except for some 80% archipelago maps, I doubt the Sistine Chapel really helps as much as it costs. 600 shields could make you 3 or 6 universities or 8 or so knights instead.

My victory conditions are Domination, Conquest, Diplomatic, Space Race and Cultural.

Sorry, appears I didn't speak clearly. I didn't mean what victory conditions you have enables. I mean what victory condition you play for. In other words, what victory condition you seek to acheive.

Democracy requires a second revolution. Do you really research faster or get significant enough more production to balance out the turns of that revolution? If playing as religious, most players around here probably think it would. If not playing as religious, most players around here probably think a second revolution doesn't help things. Though, there exists no definitive analysis on this, so they could have guessed wrong.

 

[andrewv42]

Excellent reasoning, though my original reason for building the Sistine Chapel was in the case of not having enough luxury resources under my control to support the larger cities in the empire, in which case I would have to spend the game paying for them, or I'd have to acquire them in a war.

You have a good standpoint, though. As almost all of my games have been on Monarch, I've somewhat turned into a builder, and like to develop as many of my cities as possible with the majority of the city improvements, occasionally leaving out courthouse or colosseum.

Seeing as I play on larger maps, I guess you could say I go for Diplomatic/Space Race victories.

 

[Aabraxan]

Thanks for all the replies!
I'm a pretty terrible warmonger, which is what I meant by, "Warmonger's doom." I've had a few games turn out badly because of warmongering.

Then might I suggest a trip to the War Academy for a refresher? Warmongering 101: "A Tactical Primer" comes to mind. Also, I just posted "An Archive of Training Day Games" down in Succession Games. There are probably several that could prove useful, but two immediately come to mind: (1) "Gma02: First Come, First Severed." We played as the Celts in a Non-Oscillating War variant as a TDG. (2) CBob (was it 02?). It's listed in the archive & we played an AWM as the Russians.

Sistine Chapel is great help with the extra happiness... I'm not sure why I shouldn't build it. If not, then what else should I go for?
My victory conditions are Domination, Conquest, Diplomatic, Space Race and Cultural. I usually play on large maps, and prefer epic games (though, like I said, I lose interest mid-Industrial) Yeah Printing Press is required for Democracy. Although I suppose I could trade for it with another civ, I always prefer to get it quickly, because it offers substantial corruption and unit cost benefits compared to Republic.

Sistine Chapel is only useful if you build cathedrals. As Spoonwood pointed out, that's 600 shields. For a military game, I would consider Sun's or Leo's a better investment, if you go for a wonder. If you can skip going for a wonder, 8 cavs would only be 640 shields. It's very rare that I build cathedrals, so I'd rather have Sun's or cavs.

As for Demo, I don't consider it worth a second revolution, and you've got to go through a couple of optional techs just to get it. I don't know how much difference in corruption there is between Demo and Rep. I know that one is "minimal," and the other is "nuisance," but I haven't looked at numbers in-game on that in a long time. As for unit support, unless you've modded something, Demo does not generally offer unit cost benefits. Units cost 2 gold per unit over the limit in Rep, but only 1 gold in Demo, but Demo has 0/0/0 unit support, while Republic has 1/3/4. Now, I'm sure we could figure out scenarios in which Demo is preferable to Republic in unit support, but I haven't sat down & figured out when that is. My hunch is that you'd have to have lots of towns size 6 and below, and a fairly small military. Once you start getting some cities size 7+, Republic has respectable unit support.

 

[andrewv42]

Now, I'm sure we could figure out scenarios in which Demo is preferable to Republic in unit support, but I haven't sat down & figured out when that is. My hunch is that you'd have to have lots of towns size 6 and below, and a fairly small military. Once you start getting some cities size 7+, Republic has respectable unit support.

Yes, usually a Democracy is better for supporting a larger amount of troops than Republic. If I had 20 cities and 10 towns, my unit support for Republic would be 70. If I had an army of 200 troops, the Democracy unit costs would amount to 200 gold per turn, while the Republic unit costs would be 260.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Yes, usually a Democracy is better for supporting a larger amount of troops than Republic. If I had 20 cities and 10 towns, my unit support for Republic would be 70. If I had an army of 200 troops, the Democracy unit costs would amount to 200 gold per turn, while the Republic unit costs would be 260.

Although if your military was that inflated vs your city count, you might want to go Monarchy ... 4 free units/city, 2/town gives you 100 free units, and IIRC the cost for units is 1/unit, meaning you only pay 100.

 

[Spoonwood]

Seeing as I play on larger maps, I guess you could say I go for Diplomatic/Space Race victories.

I recommend this article and the articles it references. Don't think that you have to play warmonger to win on higher levels. I can provide more references of higher level builder games if you like.