New Idea

[hamidheikal]

Hi Civ players
I am new player.
I have knew civ with civilization3.
Then I found PTW and Conquest.
Now i have some Ideas about Civ4.
1. There is no trust.
I give you some science freely. now we are friend. but he give you 10$.
then you ll be my enemy. why ? is it politic?
2. civilization never care of power. e.g. I am the most powerful civ in the
world. i have all of the world and somebodyelse has 2 cities. I tell him give
1$ else war! he never give me 1$. it is not real.
3. when they can see my power, i wanna tell civ1 "fight with civ2 , else i ll
fight you". and "peace with civ2 else i ll fight you".
4. I like maneuver. it can upgrade my units.
5. I like mine. miner. minelayer.
6. and please look at GOTM. why should ppl have some problem with that?
i cant play GOTM. I install everything you said. but i cant play it yet.
please help me.

 

[Elrohir]

Are you talking about how unrealistic the AI is?

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Please be intelligible. If you can't speak good English, say so.

 

[dh_epic]

He's right, there is no trust, no sense of power politics or loyalty or grudges. But this isn't an AI issue, as far as I'm concerned. It's a core gameplay issue.

It's INTELLIGENT to have no loyalties and hold no grudges in a game about taking the most land. The key is to model some of the things that tie the real world together -- trade, kinship, xenophobia, even a sense of justice. Then it becomes intelligent to play with more consistency, and less knee-jerk psychopathic megalomania (think Caesar or Napoleon).

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Once again DH_Epic is RIGHT (Dammit, DH, I wish you would STOP that ) I think part of the solution lies in making what the civilization of a human player thinks MORE important to the game. For instance, just because you, the player, are out to win the game by grabbing the most land, that doesn't mean that your people want you to go to war with all your neighbours. A people who for some reason dislike war should make life difficult for a player who wants to be a warmonger. Of course, there have to be good reasons WHY the people dislike war, and situations where they can overcome this dislike-if only temporarily (like extreme Xenophobia or a direct threat to their freedom or lifestyle, or propaganda).
Of course, being the 'Zietgiest' of your people, as Rhialto puts it, there should be ways to 'manipulate' your peoples thoughts and feelings, in the mid to long term, to make them more the way you want them to be. There would be limitations to this, though, and potentially unforseen consequences !
Also, shared culture and religion, along with a good reputation and a shared view on morality, SHOULD be a good way to build trust and friendship between the PEOPLES of two nations-and the price of a PLAYER backstab in this case should be too dire for words, especially within his own civ (massive unhappiness, possible rebellion and even seccession should be on the cards!)
Anyway, hope this helps !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Chazbagel]

The AI is pretty dumb... lol.

 

[Commander Bello]

Hi Civ players
I am new player.
I have knew civ with civilization3.
Then I found PTW and Conquest.
Now i have some Ideas about Civ4.
1. There is no trust.
I give you some science freely. now we are friend. but he give you 10$.
then you ll be my enemy. why ? is it politic?
2. civilization never care of power. e.g. I am the most powerful civ in the
world. i have all of the world and somebodyelse has 2 cities. I tell him give
1$ else war! he never give me 1$. it is not real.
3. when they can see my power, i wanna tell civ1 "fight with civ2 , else i ll
fight you". and "peace with civ2 else i ll fight you".
4. I like maneuver. it can upgrade my units.
5. I like mine. miner. minelayer.
6. and please look at GOTM. why should ppl have some problem with that?
i cant play GOTM. I install everything you said. but i cant play it yet.
please help me.

First, welcome to CFC!

ad 1) Yes, this is some kind of politics. You can "bribe" other nations to act against a third nation. The computer can do so as well.
ad 2) The computer will never agree to certain demands. It will never give in to pay gold per turn (gpt) if it cannot afford it at that moment, nor will it ever give away any of it's towns (except for peace, but even this will happen quite rarely).
ad 3) Unfortunately, this is not built in currently. It has been requested a lot of times, though. I for my person hope that this will be in cIV.
ad 4) This is represented by the ability to build veteran units by having barracks, as far as I understand it.
ad 5) Could be a nice idea, if it would be more elaborated.
ad 6) This question you should post to the respective area, I guess. Please explain your problems in more detail over there.

@Lockesdonkey:

Please be intelligible. If you can't speak good English, say so.

Although some posters indeed are not very good in English, please accept that this forum is visited from people almost all over the world - as in my case.I am not a native English speaker either, and maybe sometimes I miss to make myself clear due to my limited English. But I think most posters here try to make themselves as clear as they can.
Your reaction seemed to be harsh, and I would have liked you to be a little bit more polite, especially towards someone obviously new.

 

[Chazbagel]

I have requested number 3 on this forum a few times, and i think that it is a very good idea.

Welcome to CFC.

 

[dh_epic]

Aussie, I'm really starting to see a pattern. One of us comes into a thread about something and ties it into a bigger picture. Then the other comes into the thread and offers suggestions about how to resolve that bigger picture.

In this case, I talk about how the big issue is to model the forces that tie people together and encourage people to honor their agreements the way they do in real life.

And you offer a ton of killer suggestions on how to do it.

That's why I think factions and internal politics are probably some of the most important things to model in Civilization 4. (And why I also suggest an overhaul of culture as the quickest implementation of some kind of internal politics. ... if they can go beyond that, so much the better.)

 

[Chazbagel]

And i look and nod.

 

[hamidheikal]

hi all. so much thanks of you.
first i must tell you my english is not good. you know that.
then, i have some problem with gotm.
i downloaded something. but it didnt work. no problem.
i wanna know am i good player or not.
now i need your help.
please send to my mail, 2 files. both are *.sav
one of them when you start a game.
another, when you win and of course when you lose.
this is something like gotm, but it doesnt need some files and some copies.
thanks a lot.
bye

 

[EquinoxOmega]

1. Well, the trust is not perfect, but there is one. Although there seem to be no trust between two AI-Civs
2. on some diplomatic agreements AI can't agree because it is not possible for them. 3. good idea, this feature is missing in CIV, but you can find in other even older games like Master of Orion 2
4. a maneuver feature would be very difficult to programm
5. sounds promising
6. what's GOTM?

 

[cfacosta]

Trust, there is plenty of trust.
I trust the AI to try and walk all over my land every game.
The AI trusts me to declare war on them and mob them with Legions.
I trust the AI to refuse to give me even a penny in tribute for my troubles.
The AI trusts that it is majorly screwed thereafter.

Rinse and Repeat

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

First, welcome to CFC!

I second that motion, Welcome to CFC.

@Lockesdonkey:

Although some posters indeed are not very good in English, please accept that this forum is visited from people almost all over the world - as in my case.I am not a native English speaker either, and maybe sometimes I miss to make myself clear due to my limited English. But I think most posters here try to make themselves as clear as they can.
Your reaction seemed to be harsh, and I would have liked you to be a little bit more polite, especially towards someone obviously new.

I also agree with this. I have very good friends that don't speak very good English. So please refrain from doing that. I would really appreciate this.

 

[Rohili]

GOTM is game of the month