New Player Questions

[heikeott]

I have been playing Civ II for a long time & got III after getting new eMac with OS X. Very frustrated with some of the changes and don't see MY questions in FAQS or on other forums.

1) In Civ II I could almost always get to future techs before 2020. Now in III I am setting science spending as high as I can as early as I can and mostly don't even get to Space Flight or Fission before 2050. What do I need to change??

2) Why do the AI Civ's always want so much more from me than THEY are giving?? For example they want to trade maps but they want a tech advance or gold from me along with, or they want to trade luxuries but insist on gold every turn from me as well. And if I say no very many times because they won't trade "fairly," they declare war on me!

3) Where the heck is COAL?? Does it really exist? In 3 weeks of playing I've never once seen coal on the map, and not being able to build railroads at all ever certainly affects gameplay (Negatively, in my opinion). Iron and horses also appear rarely, and I have hardly ever had more than one luxury anywhere near the area where I start.

4) What the heck is a "port"?? Is that only in the PC version? I see mention of it in other places but have never seen the opp to build anything but harbor.

5) Geez Louise, what can I do about the pollution??? Anytime I let a city get over size 12, the pollution is outrageous - I need like 4 workers per city to keep up. And the things I USED to do in II - like Mass Transit and Solar Plant, take forever to get to and don't seem to help nearly as much.

6) What happened to sleep/sentry? Gone? And why do workers go crazy and build mines in all my irrigated grassland around cities if I set them to automate?? Is there any way to adjust their priorities?

7) Is there any way to pause or hide the game (say to check my email, for example, without saving the game, quitting, and then loading the saved game?

Well I have lots more but that's probably plenty or too many for now. Thanks for any help. Heike Ott, Tulsa OK

 

[dojoboy]

1) The lowest two levels have slower research rates due to human bonuses or AI restrictions; therefore there is little tech-brokering of advanced techs. Regent and above will get you further along. I've won by s/r on warlord but I researched exclusively, w/ very little warring.

2) Try to get them against one another, but the AIs will always offer themselves better deals than you.

3) Its there. You may need to war for it though. I don't believe I've noticed anything to be rare. I'm more concerned about the resources being abundant.

4) Is this in PTW? Harbors are the only option in Civ3.

5) Some games seem to have more pollution for me than others. I don't always pay good attention to my build order, but this may have something to do with it.

6) Are you patched to 1.21g? There is a sentry option in 1.21g ("y" to wake when any unit is near or "shift-y" to wake when enemy unit is near).

7) I believe "command-p," not sure though.

Welcome, heikeott!

 

[Raijer]

Hello heikeott, and welcome to CFC!

You've come to right place for answers; there are plenty of experts here that can rattle off many excellent pointers and tips. I can help you out a little, but others will follow, and soon all the questions will be addressed in much better detail. Before that happens though, I think it's pretty important to supply us with a bit more information. Specifically, what level are you playing at (warlord? regent? etc..), what is your map size, and how many AI opponents are you playing against? This information will allow for the highest quality answers!

Question 1: Something I've noticed between Civ II and III, is that tech trade is far more important in III. Contact rival civs, wheel... deal... trade... buy.

Q 2: The trade difference betwween II and III is often a frustrating change. It seems like you're being fleeced at every turn. However, this can also be used to your advantage. If you can get ahead in tech, YOU can demand outrageous fees: other techs, luxuries, and buku gpt.

Q 3: Like the first two questions, it's really hard to answer this question without a bit more info. Off the top of my head, it sounds to me like you may be playing on a huge map with a lower number of rival civs. In that scenario, vital resources become few and far between. Is this the case?

Q 4: There is no "port" in either the Mac or PC version Civ III; it is, like you said, a "harbor." Perhaps the "port" being discussed is the "game port." By this I mean the "porting" of a PC game to the Mac format. For example, Macsoft did the "port" of the PC Civ III game, coverting into a Mac format. Maybe that's it, but maybe I'm being stupidly obvious.

Q 5: Yeah, pollution's much more difficult to deal with in III, I agree. It really helps to have an Industrious civ, especially in the latter part of game. I always have stacks of workers cleaning up messes all over the map!

Q 6: Yes, I think sleep/sentry are gone in III, replaced by fortify, which is more or less the same thing.

Edited: dojo's right, I'm wrong: Y- sentry, Shift-Y: Sentry (wake near enemy)

As far as automating workers, there are ways to have better control. I myself am a micromanager, so I never use automate, but IIRC the controls are as follows:

Shift-A: leave exsisting improvements
Shift-I: This city only
Contl/Shift-I: This city only, leave existing improvements
Shift-P: Clean pollution only
Shift-F: Clear forest only
Shift-J: Clear jungles only

I think this is right, but if not, someone will correct me!

Q 7: This would be Command P. Quick! The boss is coming!

Hope this helps out a little. And again: Welcome!

 

[Beamup]

Additional points on a couple questions:

2. Not all maps are created equal! If their map covers more territory than yours, they will demand more for it. Also, all prices are modified according to how much that civ likes you.

3. Each resource has a minimum number of times it will appear on the map per civ. Every resource is ALWAYS there. But, as Raijer notes, if there are few civs, there may not be many resources - and it's entirely possible they'll all be elsewhere if you get unlucky. And as far as luxuries go, they are explicitly split up between starting locations, so you can't expect to have more than one unless you go conquer it.

5. Once you get the appropriate techs, Mass Transit and Recycling Centers will solve most of your pollution problems. Otherwise, you just have to clean it up. You want (for many reasons, including this one) LOTS of workers. If you just build as many workers as you used to build Settlers/Engineers, you need many more.

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

Just something to add about Q3.

The AI values your map based on how many more square you have explored than they do. Also, mainly in the later part of the game, they also value them partially based on how many squares have changed, terrain improvements and such.

About luxuries. The AI values them based on how many happy faces they will create. If the AI has 10 cities, one luxury will create 10 happy faces (not taking into account market places n such). So, if the AI has 10 cities, and you have 20, and you try to trade with a 1:1 ratio, it won't work. In this case, you'll most likely need at least a 1:2 ratio of luxuries, or some supplemental GPT.

Not all maps spawn with all luxuries also, and sometimes they don't have fair amounts of resources. Tiny maps, for instance, might never have some resources, and definately won't have all the luxuries, even if you play with max civs. Huge maps, on the other hand, have a great chance of having enough luxuries/resources for everyone, if you play with all the civs on. If you play with only 1 or 2, you still might get all the resources, but they'll be few and far between.

Hope that helps.

 

[nmcul]

Good questions.

2) The higher your current level, the more the AI favors other AI civs. It's an AI cheat to make up for the AI's stupidity.

3) If you haven't downloaded and installed any of the patches for Civ 3 yet, then your map editor probably has the 1.17 bug in which maps may not provide enough of any resource to provide at least one per civ. Patching should fix this problem, though you still might get unlucky, with another civ getting 2 of the resources-theirs and yours.

EDIT:
4) "Ports" aren't in Civ 3, PC or Mac. They do, however, exist in PTW. I don't know what they do, though.

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

I don't think there are specificly "ports" in PTW, but there are new "Commercial Docks." They work like Offshore platforms, but instead provide extra commerce.

 

[heikeott]

Thanks for answering my questions. Being new to Civ III and not being much of a warmonger anyway, I was taking it easy until I felt like I had a better feel for III, so I've been playing at Chieftain level with sedentary Barbarians. I like long games, too, so I've been playing on a large map with only 2 opponents. I guess that's why I'm seeing the scarce resources. The first couple of games I tried with 4 or 5 opponents, I got overwhelmed early in the game, so I decided to give myself a little more breathing room while I learn the changes and differences and develop new strategies. Keep in mind, I'm a middle-aged woman (pause for laughter to die down) and probably a very atypical player of Civ III. I enjoy building cities and growing a civilization, but I don't like the battling part so much and prefer to win by the space race. Or, in III, I have managed to win a couple of times by cultural domination and I like that. I like the expanding territory - it keeps the AI units off the edges of my cities and from getting between my cities and keeping me from making terrain improvments. Oh, "transforming" terrain is gone, too, isn't it? In II I used to make every city grassland with a couple of mined hills after I got engineers, but I can't do that any more. :-(
Anyway, thanks for your help. I did just find out about the 1.21g patch and installed it; looks like that will help some of my problems. One more question for now, are any of the download files for Mac? Is there a map editor, or are any of the maps and "mods" available for the Mac version? Thanks for all of your help and patience - I look forward to hanging around here and learning more about my favorite game, although I probably don't play it the same way most of you do. Heike

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

If you want abundent resources, but feel "crowded" with lots of opponents, try to knock a couple of them out early in the game, before they have a chance to build up a significant force. It may not be your style, but it works. The game almost always requires some sort of conquest to get more than a couple of cities, especially on difficulties above Cheftain/Warlord. Throughout my games, I go through phases of building and expanding, but also military conquest. I usually try to win with a large empire, by space race as well. On most difficulty levels, conquest/domination seems a lil easy... ( I think it's time I moved on to a higher difficulty... )I haven't actually got a culture victory yet, althought i recently played a game (in the Mac Game of the Month) where I didn't go to war a single time, which therefore limited me to only 5 cities, Diplomatic Victory.

Terraforming is gone, yes, but there are also several other changes. If I remember correctly, you couldn't mine grasslands and such in Civ 2, could you? Well, nontheless, you can in Civ 3, and if you lay rail over it, it adds another shield, bringing the shields of a grassland square to 2, and a bonus grassland to 3, which I find pretty nice. It works the same way with irrigation n such, one more food, and then an extra when you lay rail over it.

To answer your question, yes, there are several different graphical modpacks you can download, and most PC maps are also playable on mac. The map editor is due to come out sometime soon... hopefully real soon. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!

 

[heikeott]

What do you mean about being limited to 5 cities or the game requiring at least a couple of conquests? So far I have been able to build as many cities as I wanted, maybe because I'm playing at Chieftain? In my last game I had like 20+ cities at the end of the game, although some of them were defectors (that is to say, my culture overwhelmed them and they converted to my civ). Thanks so much for your time. Heike

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

Well, in that game (Monarch difficulty) I expanded as far as I could without going to war. I got 5 cities built, and found there was no more room anywhere nearby. So I was stuck with 5 cities, since I swore to myself not to go to war. You will need to do some warmongering on higher diffs if you want to get a decent amount of land.

It's easier on Cheftain and such because the AI takes longer to expand, thereby giving you plenty of room in the beginning. Since you've been playing with less AI's on a large map, theres plenty of space for all.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Welcome Heiklot

I am similarly new to these Forums although have been playing Civ 3 for some time nowjavascript:smilie('').

Suggest you look at both the Game of the Month (GOTM) forum which gives a set starting position which different people play for the highest score / quickest victory conditions. It is this that DiamondzAndGunz was refering to I think - he decided to follow a no war strategy and see if he could win which he didjavascript:smilie('').

The other good forum here for learning is the Succession games where different players each play for 20 turns then pass the game on. Each player generally provides a summary of their strategic approach plus turn by turn descriptions with tactical problems commented on.

Perhaps you would like to join me javascript:smilie('') in the next game when it starts. Dojoboy - perhaps a game for relative novices (Prince level to give some challenge) with comments (or parallel plays even) from the 'experts' like Tao to show what could have been done 'better' ?

Game On

 

[n8mac]

MacBaldrick, their is a current OSG game called "Persian Hegimony" that's set on the 'Prince' level. Maybe you can pull up a chair and off some cobb webs and play 20. I didn't want to jump back in until another player or two played.

I found this strange; the third difficulty level in Civ III is called 'Prince' in the manual, but 'Regent' on the game screen. I remember that Civ II had a level called Prince.

 

[tao]

And don't shy away because of my last comments. If you want, I wll pm you my observations.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Thanks for the invite n8mac. I will take it on over the next few days.

No problem with the comments tao - any help will be considered.

Some Strategy issues

In fact looking at the current scenario (150 BC) I imagine I will do some serious re-allocation of resource building starting with moving the palace in Susa to reduce distance related corruption (rush settlers / workers to empty capital then rebuild within reach of whale).

Q How can I force where the new capital will go short of building palace ?

This will make use of the improvements around the eastern cities (they are loosing heaps to corruption although Republic will help). Taking the capital away from the coast will also help later to avoid the AIs doing a blitzkreig on the capital (is it smart enough ?) or bombarding from the sea once battleships come into play.

I would also switch research to Republic and change goverments to improve productivity (trade for Literature, Republic if we can get it as we will eventually want lots of libraries to speed up research & improve culture score).

I would need to look at the military position in the NE but agree with toa - link up the cities to gain benefit of iron / luxuries and be able to re-position the military plus horsemen for flexibility speed. Build galleys at the extreme east & west cities (if productive enough) to get exploring for the central continent.

How detailed do you want my notes on these changes - the big picture as above then just what happens in the turns ?

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by MacBaldrick


Q How can I force where the new capital will go short of building palace ?

This will make use of the improvements around the eastern cities (they are loosing heaps to corruption although Republic will help). Taking the capital away from the coast will also help later to avoid the AIs doing a blitzkreig on the capital (is it smart enough ?) or bombarding from the sea once battleships come into play.

Outside of building a new capital, disbanding the capital city will bump it automatically to the next city w/ the highest population. However, I'm not sure if just disbanding it is the best option as opposed to building workers to disband it (each worker built takes away a citizen until there are none left. Make sure there is a quality city prepared to receive it. Re: AIs blitkreiging a capital - I've never seen it done.

Originally posted by MacBaldrick
How detailed do you want my notes on these changes - the big picture as above then just what happens in the turns ?

Look over recaps of other peoples' turns for an idea.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by MacBaldrick
In fact looking at the current scenario (150 BC) I imagine I will do some serious re-allocation of resource building starting with moving the palace in Susa to reduce distance related corruption (rush settlers / workers to empty capital then rebuild within reach of whale).

Distant related corruption does not really hit within 10-12 tiles distance from the capital.

How can I force where the new capital will go short of building palace ?

There are 3 alternatives:

1. Build a new palace; the cost is up to 1000 shields, depending on the size of the civilization. Currently, Persia would need 396 shields.
2. Use a Great Leader to hurry the palace. The war could be continued, fishing for a Great Leader. But I would seriously doubt, that he should be spend on a palace.
3. Abandon the capital; the new palace appears in the city with the highest number of citizens.
   [/list=1]

   This will make use of the improvements around the eastern cities (they are loosing heaps to corruption although Republic will help).

   Corruption will be greatly reduced by reaching pop 6 and triggering wltkd.

   Taking the capital away from the coast will also help later to avoid the AIs doing a blitzkreig on the capital (is it smart enough ?) or bombarding from the sea once battleships come into play.

   IMHO, these are theoretical fears.
   
   Corruption also depends on the number of cities, factoring in difficulty level and map size. If I remember correctly, on standard map and regent, the limit is 16. Currently Persia has 13 cities. As you may guess by now, I would not move the palace. Better work on growth and happiness.
   

   I would also switch research to Republic and change goverments to improve productivity (trade for Literature, Republic if we can get it as we will eventually want lots of libraries to speed up research & improve culture score).

   You are aware, that switching research goals means spending full 14 turns for the new tech? You do not transfer the literature effort to republic. It might be wiser to finish literature and trade.

 

[Grey Randall]

Welcome to the both of you.

Just have to say this...


Baldric, you wouldn't know cunning if your were to put a muzzle on it and call it a fox!

 

[heikeott]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and offers. I do not think I am ready to play against any of you people, though. I still lose to the AI's quite regularly, and all of you keep saying how stupid they are!

However, I did manage a diplomatic victory - my highest score yet in III - last night thanks to your suggestions and help, and I finally got to build my beloved railroads. Those loopy patterns the railroads make in III are just way cool. (Yes, I'm easily amused.)
Boy, the AI's will pay through the nose for a tech they don't have, even if it's a fairly useless one, won't they?

In the game I'd been playing for several days, I had discovered a large island with room for 3 or 4 cities that none of my opponents had happened upon, and I was refusing to trade maps with them until I got it colonized - I guessed that as soon as they saw desirable open land on the map they would go after it. So my opponents' attitude towards me was definitely cooling and I didn't know what to do to avoid war. Then I got the tip about always giving them SOMETHING, even if it isn't what they wanted. So I gave them a little gold here and there and even passed out one dead-end tech as a gift to keep them appeased until I could get the spots I really wanted on that island. Worked great!

Now I have a new question. I am playing on Chieftain level. I am a Greek democracy with about 17 cities and counting (Cities keep "flipping" to me because I build lots of temples and libraries and such). I do have a far-flung colony, but it has built the forbidden palace so I am actually in pretty good shape as far as waste and corruption go. I started the game with 3 opponents; 2 are left. All of my cities have a marketplace and a bank (hey, whatever happened to superhighways, and did anything replace it to increase $$$ yield?)except for the new flips, and I have only 82 military units including 26 workers. Science spending is set at 70%, luxuries at 0% (I have either acquired or traded for 7 luxury resources, so I'm not having much trouble with happiness - most of my cities are in a nearly perpetual WLTKD.

The problem? I'm losing money! With all the extra commerce generated by being a democracy and WLTKD, roads and/or railroads everywhere, and very little military spending, I'm still 17 gold in the hole every turn. What's wrong? Any ideas?

TIA for any help.
Heike

 

[Beamup]

My guess would be infrastructure costs. If you build lots and lots of buildings, then you will have to pay a lot of gold to maintain them. Check your Domestic Advisor screen (F1) to see where your gold is going. You might also be giving a lot of gold/turn to other civs if that's how you got your luxuries.

Ways to improve your financial situation include:
1. Keep 1000 gold in the bank, since you most likely have Wall Street with all those banks - if not, build it. Then WS will produce 50 gold/turn.
2. Drop science spending if needed. Not really desirable, but may be necessary. Don't do this unless you have to.
3. Get it from the AI! Sell them techs for gold/turn, as well as any spare luxuries you have. Spare strategics can also get you a good chunk of change, but consider that carefully. One benefit of this is that if you take all of their income, they will drop their science spending to make up for it. This leads to them being even further behind in tech, so you can sell them even more tech for even better rates.

#3 is probably the best option, particularly since it can also bankrupt the AIs.

Oh, and there is no equivalent of the superhighways in Civ3. Sorry.