New Player Questions

[heikeott]

So if I'm guessing right here, the GOTM is a saved game file that everyone who is interested downloads and plays according to the stated settings, then posts their score? Probably lots of fun for those who are GOOD at this game. I'd be more interested in using it for tutoring. That is to say, someone posting step-by-step what they do with it so that I could follow along and learn by emulation. Is that done anywhere? If not, could it be?

Or maybe I could post what I did and get 5 or 10 of you telling me what I did wrong. Either way, I'd learn something! I see you guys talking about getting to the industrial age in the 1700's and I know I must be doing something SERIOUSLY wrong.

Heike

 

[tao]

Originally posted by heikeott
So if I'm guessing right here, the GOTM is a saved game file that everyone who is interested downloads and plays according to the stated settings, then posts their score? Probably lots of fun for those who are GOOD at this game. I'd be more interested in using it for tutoring. That is to say, someone posting step-by-step what they do with it so that I could follow along and learn by emulation. Is that done anywhere? If not, could it be?

You could look at all the great info available at the faq and the civfanatics website.

Or maybe I could post what I did and get 5 or 10 of you telling me what I did wrong.

Read first. Anyhow, it would not need 5 to 10 people to point out, how you could do better, probably.

Either way, I'd learn something! I see you guys talking about getting to the industrial age in the 1700's and I know I must be doing something SERIOUSLY wrong.

No. Tech research goes faster at higher difficulties. Therefore as you move up with experience gained, "you" will research faster.

PS: Did you look at the djb2, djb3 succession games? Did you try to play some turns on your own and afterwards(!) looked at what more experience players did?

 

[MacBaldrick]

Another tip. If you have mega cities with some low value squares take them out and make tax collectors. In other cities consider moving production around to max. gold rather than production / food which you may have had in your earlier growth phase.

At higher levels you will always have to allocate some gold to luxuries to keep the peace at home.

If you don't want to post just yet, shadow the game, i.e. play yourself for 20 turns then compare with strategy / tactics / outcome of next game post. i did this with Persian Hegemony at the start.

 

[heikeott]

Originally posted by tao
You could look at all the great info available at the faq and the civfanatics website. Read first.

Sir, yes SIR!! Actually, I have been, and struggling to make sense out of some of it, and some of it just plain doesn't seem to work like they say. After my first post's replies, I went back to my game-in-progress and tried some stuff, like selling tech. I had set my tech spending up to 80% and was way ahead of the AI's, so I tried to sell Joan of Arc Chivalry, I think it was, (I already had riflemen so wasn't too worried about giving her knights or whatever). Hah! She wouldn't pay any gold for it!

PS: Did you look at the djb2, djb3 succession games? Did you try to play some turns on your own and afterwards(!) looked at what more experience players did? [/QUOTE]

Umm, I haven't figured out how to look at them, yet. When I try to download something and it tells me it is an .exe file, then I know I am in trouble. Otherwise how do I tell whether what I am trying to download is Mac-able or not? Nothing is sorted out by platform that I can tell. I would love to try some of the maps, scenarios, mods, etc. (all while wondering HOW DID THEY DO THAT when there is no editor as yet, unless they are just hiding it from newbies...) but I can't tell if any of them will work ... unless I find stuff attached to posts in the MAC forum, I suppose those should work?

BTW FWIW I am probably old enough to be your mother, so be nice to me. It is a miracle that I am here at all, much less using OS X and playing Civ III. (Many of my age-contemporaries can barely figure out how to get their e-mail in AOL, that is IF they allow one of these infernal contraptions in their home to begin with! )

 

[Txurce]

Heikeott, all of the hames posted on the Mac forum should be compatible. You won't have any need to go beyond them for a while.

The PC version has had an editor for a long time, hence the modifications.

A hint about research: in almost all cases, you are better off either setting it at zero and trading for tech, or maxing it as high as your budget and happiness can afford.

 

[Beamup]

Originally posted by MacBaldrick
If you have mega cities with some low value squares take them out and make tax collectors.

Sorry, but this is NOT a good idea. Any square with a road produces at least one trade, plus more - a taxman only produces one coin. Thus you lose out making specialists unless corruption is quite bad - unlikely in a "mega city."

In general, specialists should typically be used only if one of these situations holds:
1. You need entertainment in that specific city on a temporary basis.
2. All squares are already being worked.
3. You want to set science at 0 and still research in 40 turns (creating one scientist does this.)
4. The city is very badly corrupted.

I may have missed a situation or two, but making workers into tax collectors to make up a budget shortfall - especially a long-term one - is not one of them.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Beamup
In general, specialists should typically be used only if one of these situations holds:
1. You need entertainment in that specific city on a temporary basis.
2. All squares are already being worked.
3. You want to set science at 0 and still research in 40 turns (creating one scientist does this.)
4. The city is very badly corrupted.

I may have missed a situation or two, but making workers into tax collectors to make up a budget shortfall - especially a long-term one - is not one of them.

Take in mind: if you have a happiness problem, at first start with 1 taxman/scientist. It removes 1 unhappy citizen. Only if you have 2 unhappy citizens, change 1 of them into an entertainer.

I also do this not only on a temporary basis, but for many turns, if the relative number of cities needing a higher lux tax is low.
Typical example: you have conquered 1,2,3 cities with high corruption and want to kick them into wltkd to then build the necessary happiness improvements.

 

[Beamup]

"For many turns" is still temporary. I'm just meaning not forever - i.e. you do however long is necessary to build improvements/get luxuries/whatever is needed, then put the specialists back to work.

And your point about being able to use taxmen/scientists (I usually do scientists) for limited happiness is a good addition - I've been doing that for a long time myself, but it bears mention.

 

[heikeott]

Kewl! Learn something new every day. I guess really all I have to do is get you guys "discussing" things with each other and I will learn how to play better just from the fallout.

I have been reading some of the game threads where they trade the game around and then say what they did. Maybe when I get home to my MAC I will try downloading one myself and playing along. I guess they don't mind if I do that?

Thanks for all the help!
Heike
:worshp:

 

[Beamup]

If you want to listen in on such discussions, you could start browsing the "Strategy & Tips" section of these forums. The signal-to-noise ratio is lower than it is here, but there is a lot of useful info being bandied about there.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Just to let you know I have posted the next turn in the persian hegemony game . Download Xeres, 230 AD.SAV (note typo) from the uploads3 page and see commentary in main thread.

Note I first tried this on a strategy of moving the capital to the centre of the landmass with potential mega cities nearby but a could not get the last worker to complete (pop 1) despite this tactic working OK for moving Ur. Stuck over several turns at one turn to Worker with pop rush getting "you dont need to do that" message. Anyone know why ?

heikeot - I could send you(or anyone elase) this other game to compare outcomes of a different strategy (pursued Republic and switched - too long in Anarchy, but you generally have to bite the bullet sometime). Exploration of Resource Continent was more successfull etc. Score was 318 vs 328 with capital in full production. Have a go yourself - you can't do much worse

 

[heikeott]

Oh, I can and I did. My first go at it I immediately lost Ur and the immortal that was approaching Akkad, and then Babylon went into civil disorder. <sigh> Second try was a little better, I made peace with Hammurabi pre-turn. Still, Akkad expanded on me, the darn AI's never did get any tech beyond Lit. for me to buy (although I did broker monarchy, monotheism, currency, and construction all around for quite a bit of gold), and somebody landed on the isthmus below Persepolis and founded a city before I could stop them.

You can disband a city?? HOW?? That was one of my worst peeves in Civ II was not being able to get rid of useless captured cities. I tried starving 'em out with engineers and caravans etc. but nothing ever worked. I see that Abandon City thing, but how does that work? does the city disappear or just become empty?

What do you mean by a palace pre-build?
What is a pop rush?
How can you "move" a city?
Do you believe in placing cities according to resources and terrain, or tiling them like some say to use every available tile?
Somewhere around 50 AD I bought literature expecting to be able to choose something to research next, but it went to engineering like automatically! Why? Can I change what I'm researching without waiting for it to finish? If so, how, and is there a penalty for doing so?

Thanks!
Heike

 

[tao]

Congratilatons. Trying is the right approach.

Originally posted by heikeott
Oh, I can and I did. My first go at it I immediately lost Ur and the immortal that was approaching Akkad, and then Babylon went into civil disorder. <sigh> Second try was a little better, I made peace with Hammurabi pre-turn.]

Did you aks for and get Samara in the peace treaty?

Still, Akkad expanded on me, the darn AI's never did get any tech beyond Lit. for me to buy (although I did broker monarchy, monotheism, currency, and construction all around for quite a bit of gold), and somebody landed on the isthmus below Persepolis and founded a city before I could stop them.

Don't worry; your time will come.

You can disband a city?? HOW?? That was one of my worst peeves in Civ II was not being able to get rid of useless captured cities. I tried starving 'em out with engineers and caravans etc. but nothing ever worked. I see that Abandon City thing, but how does that work? does the city disappear or just become empty?

It disappears.

What do you mean by a palace pre-build?

If you want to build a city improvement or wonder, that is not yet available (missing necessary tech), you start pre-bulding something else and later switch to the desired improvement/wonder. The most expensive pre-build is the palace.

What is a pop rush?

You can "whip" improvements (hurry them) by sacrificing citizens in despotism and communism. Other governments require gold to rush.

How can you "move" a city?

You can't. You have to abandon it and found a new city with a settler.

Do you believe in placing cities according to resources and terrain, or tiling them like some say to use every available tile?

Yes. There are a number of optimal city placement strategies, but usually you have to decide on the trade-off amng them, depending on situation.

Somewhere around 50 AD I bought literature expecting to be able to choose something to research next, but it went to engineering like automatically! Why? Can I change what I'm researching without waiting for it to finish? If so, how, and is there a penalty for doing so?

Literature obviously was the last missing tech for the ancient ages. Scientific civilizations (like Persia) get a free random tech at the beginning of each turn. You got engineering. Enjoy it, don't complain.

PS: Did you already establish any embassies to improve relations and open new diplomatic options? Any map-trading to learn the word?

 

[heikeott]

No, I didn't GET engineering - it automatically went to researching engineering (38 turns to go...) after I bought Literature. I GOT monotheism.

Yes, I set up embassies. I played that one on for quite a while. I got everybody down to cautious or better by trading around techs, maps, and luxuries. However, the AIs weren't learning anything - at least nothing that I could buy - so I started researching again and went for magnetism since every caravel I sent out sunk. As soon as I could get a galleon I built some and tried to get a foothold on the resource continent. I did, but I was too far behind in tech and most of the other civs were there with me or ahead of me, and I was behind most of the AIs by 3 or 4 techs and had nowhere near enough gold to catch up by buying. Finally I gave up - it was obvious I wasn't going to win - and started over with the 150BC map.

This time I let Ur be taken (I didn't like it where it was anyway) and went after Akkad and Samarra. I discovered that within a turn or two of me destroying a city, other civs would try to horn in on my island even if they had to build cities in pretty unlikely places. I didn't have enough units to block all the possible landing points, so finally I got mad and just went to war with nearly everybody. It took me a while, but now I have my whole continent cleaned out and I have Samarra, plus many of my cities are in locations that I like better than they were. (Ur, Akkad, Ravenna, etc. got destroyed). Unfortunately nearly all the GWs got built while I was warmongering, but I did stay pretty much even on tech and switched to republic right after the GA ended.

Now I am building the basic city improvements I like to have (temple, lib, granary since I missed Pyramids, courthouse, etc.), planning to move my palace to a more central location (Ellipi, maybe?), and headed straight for magnetism as fast as I can to try to beat the other civs to the resource continent. I have made peace with everyone; some are still "furious" with me and others are "annoyed," but all will trade. I need a harbor ASAP so I can trade lux to help happiness and maybe throw some citites into WLKD. I think I will learn some things by playing the same game several different ways to see what works for me and what doesn't.

PS What is a "super science city"? What does it do and why have one? (Yes, I am still reading other threads & forums, but concepts I don't understand keep being mentioned/used like everyone should know what they are). I think I'm beginning to understand what you-all mean by "infrastructure," but nobody ever EXPLAINS it!! Heike

 

[tao]

Originally posted by heikeott
No, I didn't GET engineering - it automatically went to researching engineering (38 turns to go...) after I bought Literature.

After a tech is completed, the program chooses the next one for you. The same turn, you hit F6 and make a different choice without loosing anything.

Yes, I set up embassies. I played that one on for quite a while. I got everybody down to cautious or better by trading around techs, maps, and luxuries. However, the AIs weren't learning anything - at least nothing that I could buy - so I started researching again and went for magnetism since every caravel I sent out sunk. As soon as I could get a galleon I built some and tried to get a foothold on the resource continent. I did, but I was too far behind in tech and most of the other civs were there with me or ahead of me, and I was behind most of the AIs by 3 or 4 techs and had nowhere near enough gold to catch up by buying. Finally I gave up - it was obvious I wasn't going to win - and started over with the 150BC map.

Trading takes practice. I will post a new thread on it later today, probably.

I think I will learn some things by playing the same game several different ways to see what works for me and what doesn't.

Definitely a viable approach.

PS What is a "super science city"?]

It is a city, which accumulates everything to get maximum science. (You know, that in the F1 screen the cities can be sorted various ways by clicking on the column head symbols, don't you?) The super science city has

• library,
• university,
• research lab,
• Colossus
• Copernicus',
• Newton's,
• Seti Program.

Add happiness and corruption reducing improvements as necessary.