New Scandinavian Leader!

[The Last Conformist]

Given the obvious focus on Viking Age Scandinavia, I think Margarethe is out (and what kind of daft idea is having Kalmar as capital? It was never a capital or even an important royal residence).

Canute is probably the best option.

As for ordering Copenhagen and Stockholm in the city list, well, the former has practically always been the bigger and more commericially important city.

 

[Beloyar]

No, you should ignore hr_oskar's comments and lighten up.

Ragnar Lodbrok probably didn't exist and a country of Scandinavia also didn't exist. Scandinavia is a region, not a country. But in the game there's nothing wrong with a Scandinavian civ, and I don't see any problem with it. hr_oskar doesn't know what he is talking about.

I also think Queen Margaret I would be a good choice for the unified civ.

 

[Singularity]

I don't think you can point and click at an obvious candidate as leader of the 'Scandinavian' civilization. And please remember, we're not talking about nations or rulers per se. We're talking about warlords and occupied/sacked territory.

Civilization(the game) as a concept is not about established rule, but the tools to actually establish a rule at any given time in our history. The germanic tribes that occupies roughly todays area called Germany is known as the foot that stomped the Romans. They where uncontested at their time, and where a domintant force in the whole of the region. But the unique unit is the Panzer, a weapon of Adolf Hitler's 'Blitzwar' machinery, not the barbaric germanic tribesmen or Frederiks Ironclads. Zulu warriors where unmatched in their region at the time, and they actually withstood and sacked some of the colonial forces with their vastly superior firepower and technology.

The vikings where a very strange lot by the loose connection between the homeland and the invading/exploring parties. They had no 'Praetors' who reported back to the ruling forces in the homelands. Much of Viking 'expansion' happened by a mutual assimilation of cultures wherever they landed for a period of time. The forces who sacked/tried to sack Byzantium repeatedly in the 9. and 10. centurey where not exactly true blood Vikings, but their technology and mythology where absolutely viking in origin. And they had the tools to shake established empires with large wooden canoes and small ships and sneak attacks down the major waterways of central/east europe.

I think Canute is a good enough ruler as any other. Yes, another choice Margarete I, as would Harald Hårfagre have been. All three come from each region of the three scandinavian countries of today at different times. The idea of the Vikings are the essential message here, not the various leaders.

Dhengis Khan didn't care about rulership. His technology paved the way for him in an unpresedented path of warfare in our world history. He's an undistributed figurehead of the Mongols, but not ruler of any magnitude. And you can hardly claim that Mongolia has dominated the era from 4000BC until today.

I think Canute is the closest thing to a Viking leader that first ruled most of what's todays scandinavia. So he's a natural first choise. George Washington could've been America's ruler, but we're stuck with good ole Abe. So there's plenty of historical opportunities or reasons to choose different leaders than the ones Sid and his team choose in the end for the game.

If it really bothers you so much, you can change the art files to get a proper leader. I think Ragnar is cute, so I'll keep him.

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Sorry for incoherent sentences. I'm dead tired and bored at work...

 

[JuuL]

Wow! That was a lot of text, Singularity!

Let's start with The Last Conformist's question: Why should Kalmar be the capital for Margrethe I? Because Kalmar is were the Treaty of the Kalmar Uniun was signed.

Anyway, that really doesn't matter. I can see your point. Canute is a better leader than Margrethe. I just hope that the people at Firaxis will use the Danish form, Knud, if they make him the leader. I know they usually use the English form of a name (Joan of Arc instead of Jeanne D'Arc) but I still think Canute sounds to stupid to be a leader name.

 

[Singularity]

Juul, yeah...a lot of text. :| I must've had a momentary loss of reason. My point was packed into a load of mumbojumbo I'll not write anything more now, in fear of spilling my last few beans of sence.

Edit:
We're dead agreed on Canute. It sounds like an exotic fruit or something, not a Viking leader who interestingly enough was called Knud. The 'phoneticish' english name Canute is quite pathetic and should be replaced by his actual historical name.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Let's start with The Last Conformist's question: Why should Kalmar be the capital for Margrethe I? Because Kalmar is were the Treaty of the Kalmar Uniun was signed.

On that logic, the German capital should be Versailles.

 

[JuuL]

I do of course know that Kalmar is not the perfect capital even if Margrethe was the great leader. It was just a suggestion.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. I think most of us has agreed on asking Firaxis for Knud/Canute as our great leader. I just hope that they're reading this...

 

[Bluetooth]

I think the right person is Harold Bluetooth, king of Denmark. He succeded his father, Gorm the Old, who had united Denmark, and consolidated the kingdom.

Bluetooth, why not. I think it’s a brilliant idea.

 

[JuuL]

That doesn't sound like a very objective suggestion...

And about Gorm: He didn't unite the country. Actually Danmark had been united for centuries when Gorm became king. Danmark was already mentioned as one nation by French historians during the reign of Charlemagne (sometime between 400 and 600 AD, I think).

And since we're talking about Danmark, I think you should try my Danish mod. I just uploaded a new version (0.7) a few days ago. It's not quite finished yet but I think it's fun to play (and a little educating, too). The link is in my signature

 

[Warman17]

Why are we, the mighty Scandinavians, governed by somebody like Ragnar Lodbrok? He didn't even exist!!!
Our leader should be Ruling Lady Margrethe I, who ruled Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, the Pharoe Islands and Finland.

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/r/ra/ragnar_lodbrok.html

Ragnar did exist

 

[JuuL]

As hr_oskar already said: Ragnar Lodbrog may have been a real person, but he is not the dragon-slaying mythical hero he is known as.

And the stories about his life are not reliable enough to make him leader of a nation in a game that is supposed to be about real history. And his empire was smaller than Knud den Store's.

 

[Rammstein]

JuuL needs to calm down a little bit and not be so offended by a simple joke that is actually true: Scandinavia was never a nation. But I do think he is correct, Scandinavia in the game should be ruled by someone who actually did rule everything - and why that would be the Danes. Why not?

The Ottomans is another example of a slight shift in definitions - someone pointed out that Ottoman was a dynasty, not a civ. The vikings were never great ruler, "viking" is just a term that describes men that sailed off to plunder pillage or, more frequently, trade. I don't think a viking ruler is a satisfactory solution - it's a standardized concept that is hard to get rid of that the heydays of Scandinavia was the viking period. It was actually the opposite, really. Poverty and famine drew the vikings out of the woodwork and local politics were, to put it mildly, chaotic. The grandest days of the Scandinavians were much later, between the 12th and the 17th century, in which first Denmark and then Sweden were the dominating nations. But only danes ruled it all.

I would be very happy if Scandinavians were treated with a little more historical accuracy, because it is possible. I would actually limit the viking influence to the UU and the seafaring trait.