New Unit: Meso American Spearman 9/26/03

[spincrus]

Kinboat, stop making units for God's sake! I have to keep on adding new units to my own mods and start the game from the beginning, EVERYTIME!



Just kidding, great work again.

 

[Kal-el]

That is one nice looking unit!

 

[tjedge1]

Hmm. This unit will go with my mod perfect.
As far as Machine Gunners. Well everyone else has commented on it and as my sig says: Machine Gunners won't go in my mod. Automatic Weapons and fantasy settings. What would be the point of fantasy then. I personally jump with joy everytime someone makes any ancient or middle age unit. :jump:
On a second thought. If you have to demand units, you should learn to make them.

Great job on this guy by the way. That cape rocks.

 

[Kinboat]

People... People... Can't we all just get along I have no plans to make a machine gunner... If at some future time my to do list empties out I'll think about any reasonably worded requests for such. Glad people like it, I think it turned out quite nicely.

 

[Madeira]

Originally posted by Steph

Not entirely true. In my mod I do have to many units for American and Japanese, and even some European. However, I'm lacking units for China, India, and Zululand, as well as middle eastern.
Beside, we really lack industrial / modern flavour units, because as you said, we have more role (infantry, paratrooper, marine), but not enough flavour unit to make these roles vary with civilization.
So I disagree with your math. But it doesn't mean Kinboat's units are not welcomed

I was just saying we actually have more modern infantry units than ancient spear ones, in vanilla civ. Doesnt mean I dont enjoy seeing new modern infantry units come out, have lots of them in my mod

 

[Vuldacon]

Now that's what I call Good Work for a day off! Thanks Kinboat

 

[aracuan]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
aracuan hoplites were from greece only, you should know that since your greek. And PTW does feature a machine gunner, look in the extras folder.

edit-and great unit Kinboat, I hope you´ll release the other soon

yoda,i bow infront of your wisdom.many thanks my friend.you were right,there is a machine gunner infantry in extras folder.since now i ignored its existence.i m sending a complte answer however to mr.steph with the binoculars in his eyes.i would appreciate it if you have a look.

 

[aracuan]

Originally posted by Steph


Loulong has 1588 posts. You have 8. So before being aggressive and saying that there is no machine gunner when someone who obviously has been here for far longer than you say the opposite, you'd better double check your information. Or perhaps be a bit more diplomatic like "HEy, you say we have MG with PTW. That's great, but I can't find them, could you direct me to them".
Second, machine gunners have never been the front line infantry in any army. They are support weapons only.
Beside, it's not because your history starts in 1900 and you don't know anything about the rest of the world or other time period that it didn't exist. So I suggest that you apply our last advice "learn history" to yourself. Instead of focusing on your own demand, take the opportunity to increase your knowledge and widen your point of view.

first of all,the reason for replying so late is that i went away for the weekend and i didnt have pc in my cottage.second,it seems that the binoculars you re wearing(glasses),dont give you the ability or the wisdom to claim that u
know history and i wiil prove to u immediately.machine gunners ARE front line troop units.in fisrt world war,the first battle was battle of marne,in which germans attempt to invade france,and they were repelled after 3 days fight,by general zoffre.in this battle,240.000 germans and austro-hungarians were lost,275.000 from the allied forces.well tell me now,how all these were killed?from artillery shells?from nukes,aliens?or from the ancient eras airplanes?the answer is no.from the lethal machine gunner infantries,which they decimate both armies.and so,they forced to make the war in the trenches.since you re saynig that you re french you supposed to know that,but you dont know international history,but enen not your own country!and I AM from a country that never stops to fight,learn to fight,and learn history very well.even more when we were for 400 years slaved from the turks,rised up from our ashes,and drive off the conquerors.
Completing,support units are basicly artillery units,and whatever is behind the front line.i had military service in mobile artillery m109 Paladin for a 18 months,and i know much better what is support unit,and what its not,because i serve in army,u didnt.so left the last word for me,got it?
and because i have send 8 only posts,does not mean that i dont know the site for a long time.this can occure for several reasons:first,i have lots of other interests in my life.2nd,i dont play only civ 3.so it is completely wrong saying that quality of any opinion depends on the nymber of sent items....!!!!

 

[aracuan]

Originally posted by embryodead


You are mistaken with all your points
- There are two machine gunners in PTW (american and german). It is quite funny that you're getting mad having them on your hdd
- They aren't much needed except for WW2 scenario (it doesn't make sence to put 10 types of infantry with every possible weapon if it all happens in 1 era).
- Meseamerican warriors were much needed and requested by people. Civ3 is a game that replays the world history and units from all ages are needed.

hi.and to you like yoda,i say that i bow infront of your wisdom.you were right,there is a machine gunner infantry.but yoda was the only kind(with loulong)explaining where exactly the folder is(instead if the smartass steph).

 

[aracuan]

Originally posted by LouLong
Wao, nice barrage firing defense !

Thanks for the support (on the ideas at least) guys !

Aracuan, don't take it badly please. You were a bit offensive and wrong on one of your first posts but that happened to quite a few people. People are usually very helpful on these boards (provided they know/can) so we would have gladly helped to find out where these machine-gunners were.
BTW one guy started to make one for the early 1900 but the project seems a bit on hold. Maybe you should revive that thread.


Remember : KALOS KAGATHOS

PS. On the (funny) side note : I teach and research history
PS 2 : Steph, be careful when you mention the (relative)importance of the number of posts. Otherwise Yoda will just consider he knows more than the rest of us all.
PS 3 : Kinboat, sorry for the threadjacking

dear loulong:
it seems that i misunderstood you.you re seem to be a very welcomed person.thanks for your nice words as well and find the machine gunner infantry which i didnt know that exists in the extras folder.but please,if u say that you teach history search this detail,unless your speciality is not about modern warfare on 19,20,21 century.i love history,specialy from 1900 and after,in which in less from a century,the world has change so much,and discoveries where like avalanche.it seems that you know some,greek,so merci!tu es magnifique.
please explain to the smart-ass steph some certain things,and to remove his binoculars from his eyes,it seems that they dont help him much.

 

[Steph]

Some historical information. The battle of the Marne was one by Joffre, not Zoffre (if you have some problems to read name, may I suggest you try to wear some glasses?). A typical French infantry company in 1914 had 250 men, equipped with the Lebel rifle, and share its machine gun with another company (so that's 1 machine gun for 500 mens). The total number of German Machine gun was about 5000, the same as the French. France mobilized 8 410 000 men, and Germany 11 000 000. So I daresay machine gun were a minority. Machine guns were not the only deadly weapon. The 23rd of august, 1914, the German infantry was advancing in tight formation against the British near the canal of Mons. The Professional British army was very well drilled, and the English manage to fire 15 bullets a minute. The German suffers very high losses, and thought they were facing machine guns, ot least submachine guns, but they were not.
So, how were all these troops killed during these battles? By machine gun, by artillery fire, and more simplier by ennemy rifles. Take 100 guys, and make them charge 100 other guys with rifle. I think the 100 guys will suffer as many losses as if they charge a machine gun.
The war in trenches did not came because of machine gun alone, but because both sides discovered that their tactics didn't work, and they cannot win a short war. So they just follow a British military sentence "When you cannot advance, dig a hole and keep it".
In World War 2, machine guns were not the main weapons either. Every country had troops equipped with rifles, some with sub machine gun. They were a few light machine gun, generally one for a squad, and then medium machine gun and heavy machine gun as support weapon for the company, with a few light mortars.
So my dear Aracuan, machine gun have never been the main front line weapons, as rifles equipped the great majority of soldiers. Or perhaps you are mistaking them with sub machine gun?

Ok, your country has never stopped by fight... 445... This is the number of years France has been at war since the 14th century. So I think we also know a bit about fighting. I won't even compared the casualties suffered by both countries, my goal is not to keep scores.

I really don't see on what serious argument you can pretend that I don't know French history nor international history. Same thing for time in the army. What make you think you are the only one who spend some time in the army? Because for your information we also had a military service in France.
Regarding support weapon, you now that an army fight at different scale, and each scale as its own support weapons (tactical = mortar, machine gun, operational = artillery, strategical = aircraft; to be extremly rough).

Regarding the personal attack about physical attributes, a few verses come into my mind, from a guy to whom someone said he had a big nose "Voila monsieur ce que vous auriez pu me dire si vous aviez des lettres et de l'esprit, mais de l'esprit vous n'en avez guère et des lettres vous n'en avez que trois qui forment le mot sot". I'd rather have a bad sight due to not perfect eyes than bad insight due to imperfect brain.

You can start a real flame war if you want, but it will be useless as I won't answer anymore, I have already given you far more time than your petty remarks deserve.

Without any respect.

Master Kinboat and all the others, all my apologies for this completly off topic answer, but I couldn't let it pass. Let's hope the few historical information may have been interesting for you anyway.

 

[Tacit_Exit]

Originally posted by Steph
I'd rather have a bad sight due to not perfect eyes than bad insight due to imperfect brain.

Nice!

Hey, I didn't realize that was an actual photo of you as your avatar, Steph. I thought you just chose some random cool looking dude

Kinboat, this one is nice and distinctive.

ps: hint, hint

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit

Hey, I didn't realize that was an actual photo of you as your avatar, Steph. I thought you just chose some random cool looking dude

This is an actual photo of me. This way, when I'm famous (in 232 years??) and I will be on TV, you can say to your friends: "Hey I know this guy, he was with me at CFC".
By the way, nice of you to say I'm a cool looking dude.

 

[Kinboat]

Yes Yes... Egyptian units I get the hint Any particular guy you'd like to see first (not saying I'll do it right away but I can still tempt you all by making a model and previewing it )

 

[computerdude113]

You know what would be really spiffy Kinboat, Egyptian god units.

O, and these new meso-americian units of yours are amazing!

 

[Tacit_Exit]

I think the most distinctive Egyptian archetype would be a Khopesh-wielding Swordsman.

I don't know how well you could make that curved-ended sword stand out, though.

I think they used a lot of mercenaries in their armies in the early period too, so perhaps a dark-skinned Nubian club/cudgel wielder as a warrior replacement.

And the Composite Bow was an early Egyptian innovation, again a detail that would probably be lost at Civ3 scale

I'm trying to find some decent pics, but they're hanging with the hens teeth atm ; but heres some Khopesh ('s?).

 

[Thunder God]

Hi Kinboat. I love the unit. It has class written all over it. I love the fluid motion of the attack and the general attention to detail. I think that's your great skill, you really make the units you create stand out. They are very distinctive and have your unique stamp on them.

Great work! Thanks.

Just a side note regarding trench warfare. I watched a program the other day that claimed prolonged trench warfare in the first world war was only maintained because of the introduction of tinned ham. This apartently allowed the lines to be manned all year round regardless of the weather! Bizarre if the program was accurate eh?

 

[god_money]

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit

I think they used a lot of mercenaries in their armies in the early period too, so perhaps a dark-skinned Nubian club/cudgel wielder as a warrior replacement.

The Uruk Hai Warrior works well for this.

 

[COAtlantis1745]

Let's definately work on that Khapesh swordsman! I have been asking for this unit for what seems like decades now!

Also, a New Kingdom Spearman would be nice as well.

What is the status on the remaining N/M/S American Indian units?

 

[Kinboat]

Very busy... plus a recent loss in my family has me to wrapped up to have much free time... I might get one out next week.