Micky Onimusha
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2004
- Messages
- 344
I guess, but still, it's a lot to give up.
Newbie Learning - Asking for Tips
- Thread starter Micky Onimusha
- Start date
phoulishwan
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 177
Heh, you guys bashing Keelyn! Keelyn is possibly my favorite Leader to play as, I sometimes feel as if I'm exploiting because the AI isn't smart enough to declare war on me while I merrily destory every city they try to plant down with Loki, even better if they place it where I would have placed mine, let them settle the land for me 
It's probably a good thing the AI had no clue how to use their own units or players would have no choice but to stay at war with the Balseraphs for the entire game or until they wipe them out. When I play Keelyn I essentially force any target civ to stay indefinately in their settler growth state until I've claimed all the bits of land I want, sometimes at they build my cities for me if they plonked down a city where I woudl have built it. Loki downright owns and is completely over powered. Shame he can't gain xp but I guess if he could he would be something out of your worst nightmare, and you won't see an earlier Great Bard than with the Balseraph's, which is one of the half dozen reasons why FoL is such a great fit for the Phoule's. Although, I'll usally go for RoK, start on the Altar and then try to aquire FoL without actually adopting it so I can build some tier 1 FoL disciple units in my altar city as upgrade bait to Harlequins (usually non-elven ones are used to spread FoL; while the elven born ones are reserved for Harlequin upgrades), then switch to the Order after I get my druids out. Mainly for the military production benefits and hopefully the Law Mana from the Holy City so I can get my city improvement casters going full tilt, I usually only convert so I can spread it fast with the free acolytes, then mass produce Confessors to build out my temples before finally switching to FoL to start supporting HUGE cities. Meanwhile my insane druids start pwning civs left and right while I backfill their now conquered cities with their defenders while I go on a building spree. Of course my druids have already won the game by now and I'm just toying with doing nifty tricks, I try to keep my druids together though in case Domination backfires, so I can get my druid back with another domination, I truely fear the day I get 2 backfires in a row and suddenly I myself am besieged by my own machinations, this does slow down conquests quite a bit more than I like, but on the upside I never have to build any defensive units to hold the cities! Note*** this is not a tactic to try against magic resistant civs!!!!!
I love and hate going FoL, I hate the fact you can't build lumbermills in Ancient Forests, because I'm a production freak and like to push production more than anything else. But I love it's early food benefits. IMO, production is military might, science and commerce are only there to support production and teching to the units you plan on using for military conquests. The only problem I see with OO is it will turn you evil unless you're good to begin with then the shift is only to neutral, this shift to evil is a bad thing unless you actually want to be evil, but being evil doesn't seem to have much if any upside. Of course you could just found OO and spread it without actually adopting it but then you can't grab Hemah who an awesome caster. In short if you want to play elves with OO and particularly Hemah, Arendel should be your Leader of choice, of course Arendel is by far the best choice of their leaders anyways imo...spiritual and creative are dream traits when combined for strong starts: no anarchy, half price temples and carnivals, without a need to waste precious hammers AND 1gpt on obelisks, at least until you want to start applying some serious cultural pressure on your neighbors ;p
It's probably a good thing the AI had no clue how to use their own units or players would have no choice but to stay at war with the Balseraphs for the entire game or until they wipe them out. When I play Keelyn I essentially force any target civ to stay indefinately in their settler growth state until I've claimed all the bits of land I want, sometimes at they build my cities for me if they plonked down a city where I woudl have built it. Loki downright owns and is completely over powered. Shame he can't gain xp but I guess if he could he would be something out of your worst nightmare, and you won't see an earlier Great Bard than with the Balseraph's, which is one of the half dozen reasons why FoL is such a great fit for the Phoule's. Although, I'll usally go for RoK, start on the Altar and then try to aquire FoL without actually adopting it so I can build some tier 1 FoL disciple units in my altar city as upgrade bait to Harlequins (usually non-elven ones are used to spread FoL; while the elven born ones are reserved for Harlequin upgrades), then switch to the Order after I get my druids out. Mainly for the military production benefits and hopefully the Law Mana from the Holy City so I can get my city improvement casters going full tilt, I usually only convert so I can spread it fast with the free acolytes, then mass produce Confessors to build out my temples before finally switching to FoL to start supporting HUGE cities. Meanwhile my insane druids start pwning civs left and right while I backfill their now conquered cities with their defenders while I go on a building spree. Of course my druids have already won the game by now and I'm just toying with doing nifty tricks, I try to keep my druids together though in case Domination backfires, so I can get my druid back with another domination, I truely fear the day I get 2 backfires in a row and suddenly I myself am besieged by my own machinations, this does slow down conquests quite a bit more than I like, but on the upside I never have to build any defensive units to hold the cities! Note*** this is not a tactic to try against magic resistant civs!!!!!I love and hate going FoL, I hate the fact you can't build lumbermills in Ancient Forests, because I'm a production freak and like to push production more than anything else. But I love it's early food benefits. IMO, production is military might, science and commerce are only there to support production and teching to the units you plan on using for military conquests. The only problem I see with OO is it will turn you evil unless you're good to begin with then the shift is only to neutral, this shift to evil is a bad thing unless you actually want to be evil, but being evil doesn't seem to have much if any upside. Of course you could just found OO and spread it without actually adopting it but then you can't grab Hemah who an awesome caster. In short if you want to play elves with OO and particularly Hemah, Arendel should be your Leader of choice, of course Arendel is by far the best choice of their leaders anyways imo...spiritual and creative are dream traits when combined for strong starts: no anarchy, half price temples and carnivals, without a need to waste precious hammers AND 1gpt on obelisks, at least until you want to start applying some serious cultural pressure on your neighbors ;p
I didn't see any Keelyn bashing? Micky said she was his favorite leader I think, but other than that I dunno what was said?
I haven't played much with Balseraph but the guy I play most of my MP sessions with do. And I've tried them a couple of times myself in SP. I won my first cultural game with Perpentach on a small game without any wars. It wasn't perfect, I hardly got any animals, and I started with decent traits but they switched at turn 7. I did get good traits later in the game however, overall fairly good actually.
I tried a game on noble where I wanted to to apply cultural pressure with Keelyn and they really are the cultural powerhouse with their easy Bards and Loki + Gypsy Wagons. But I felt like they could have needed even more cultural oomph.
For Ljosalfar, Cultural and Spiritual sure are nice traits. But I love Amelanchiers combo, there is no better defender in the game than him. And on immortal, or a deity survival game, there is noone who can defend like him. And Raider is just the ultimate tool for a war of attrition, as well as a speedy invasion since you can use their roads.
I haven't played much with Balseraph but the guy I play most of my MP sessions with do. And I've tried them a couple of times myself in SP. I won my first cultural game with Perpentach on a small game without any wars. It wasn't perfect, I hardly got any animals, and I started with decent traits but they switched at turn 7. I did get good traits later in the game however, overall fairly good actually.
I tried a game on noble where I wanted to to apply cultural pressure with Keelyn and they really are the cultural powerhouse with their easy Bards and Loki + Gypsy Wagons. But I felt like they could have needed even more cultural oomph.
For Ljosalfar, Cultural and Spiritual sure are nice traits. But I love Amelanchiers combo, there is no better defender in the game than him. And on immortal, or a deity survival game, there is noone who can defend like him. And Raider is just the ultimate tool for a war of attrition, as well as a speedy invasion since you can use their roads.
Micky Onimusha
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2004
- Messages
- 344
It was a bit of a mouthful but it seems a bit much on the "Religion swapping" end of things. I've never been one to hop from side to side much, heh. But Loki does seem like fun, I tried as Peppy before and found it highly amusing. I think I need to Keelyn another try, if only because she's my favourite character. I was actually surprised at how well the AI used her, which intrigued me, they just summoned units non stop, so any invasion attempt got thwarted by hordes of disposable demons.
phoulishwan
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 177
My bad, I misread the comments about Keelyn! I thogh yall yer bashing her as being annoying, which in the hands of a player she is!
I'll admit I don't play at that level. And while I do appreciate the value of raiders, as Tasunke is probably the only leader I've ever played and won deity with thanks to raiders and the Raider trait, I prefer the value of spiritual and cultural.
The thing with Balseraphs is you have to go RoK to even think about starting the altar earliesh in the game, as it converts you to Neutral. The Order change is very brief, just long enough to pump out enough confessors to speedily build as many Order Temples as you want for your main cities and spread the Order via the chance for free acolytes when founding the religion in one of your cities, the final switch to FoL is to return to neutrality to try and get back your good standing with civs you're not a war with, at least until it's their turn to fall. Come to think of it, I wish Keelyn was Creative/Spiritual instead of Creative/Summoner.
I'll admit I don't play at that level. And while I do appreciate the value of raiders, as Tasunke is probably the only leader I've ever played and won deity with thanks to raiders and the Raider trait, I prefer the value of spiritual and cultural.
The thing with Balseraphs is you have to go RoK to even think about starting the altar earliesh in the game, as it converts you to Neutral. The Order change is very brief, just long enough to pump out enough confessors to speedily build as many Order Temples as you want for your main cities and spread the Order via the chance for free acolytes when founding the religion in one of your cities, the final switch to FoL is to return to neutrality to try and get back your good standing with civs you're not a war with, at least until it's their turn to fall. Come to think of it, I wish Keelyn was Creative/Spiritual instead of Creative/Summoner.
Opuhara
Warlord
A very interesting thread indeed
Even if I do not consider myself as a newby; there are so many strategies you can't try them all
I learn a lot especially on the effect for the various promotions: I am more the builder type than a warrior
Even if I do not consider myself as a newby; there are so many strategies you can't try them all
I learn a lot especially on the effect for the various promotions: I am more the builder type than a warrior
OctopusOverload
Cultist
Im having trouble with barbarians, and since I play as Noble without raging barbs, that would make me a newbie. 
The game usually starts with some rapid expansion and terrain development, but when I have 3-4 cities, Im getting swamped by barbarians. It seems that a total of 4-5 Orc spearmens, 2 goblin scouts and 1-2 skeletons attack or are moving in to attack one or two of my cities every turn. I can keep them out of my cities, but I cant venture outside my territory or improve my empire. It feels like any game progress has stopped with purely defensive barbarian-survival being the only option.
What to do?
The game usually starts with some rapid expansion and terrain development, but when I have 3-4 cities, Im getting swamped by barbarians. It seems that a total of 4-5 Orc spearmens, 2 goblin scouts and 1-2 skeletons attack or are moving in to attack one or two of my cities every turn. I can keep them out of my cities, but I cant venture outside my territory or improve my empire. It feels like any game progress has stopped with purely defensive barbarian-survival being the only option.
What to do?
Chandrasekhar
Determined
Defend from the area around your city with mobile stacks of 2 or 3 warriors.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Build a couple scouts early on and set them on hills near your cities to keep the fog of war away. This will limit barbarian spawning. If there are any sentry towers, keep a unit there.
Remember that you get more XP attacking than defending. Take a risk or two early on and you may end up with a unit that is near invincible for awhile.
Remember that you get more XP attacking than defending. Take a risk or two early on and you may end up with a unit that is near invincible for awhile.
Don't forget the Orc slaying promotion. Although it might limit your useful promotions for your next invasion by taking it.
And the key to a succesful defense is to defend in the field, Never let them pillage unless you have to.
KingOfLands
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2006
- Messages
- 227
The others have pretty much covered it, but one other thing: refrain from trying to string settlements outwards. Keeping a tight nucleus of towns will tend to expand the area within which you're safe. Try to settle up against an edge of the map or a continent with at least one town, if not with your capitol.
Grabbing a Creative leader makes all this a little easier and can work as a sort of reverse handicap until you get dealing with raging barbs down.
For myself, I find that a stack of two or three warriors in each town rotating in and out of garrison duty to heal gives me the ability to go get in the way of barbarians with one of them at any given time. Sometimes you can get away with less, particularly if you manage to get to a point where you can build cavalry, but about 3 will usually do the job.
Grabbing a Creative leader makes all this a little easier and can work as a sort of reverse handicap until you get dealing with raging barbs down.
For myself, I find that a stack of two or three warriors in each town rotating in and out of garrison duty to heal gives me the ability to go get in the way of barbarians with one of them at any given time. Sometimes you can get away with less, particularly if you manage to get to a point where you can build cavalry, but about 3 will usually do the job.
OctopusOverload
Cultist
- Defend from the area around your city with mobile stacks of 2 or 3 warriors.
- Combat 1 & Shock 1
- Build a couple scouts early on and set them on hills
- Tight town placement
About the city placement, how tight should it be? Cultural "fat crosses" (2nd level) touching each other?
KingOfLands
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2006
- Messages
- 227
As tight as you can stand while the towns are still useful; fat-cross touching is a good guideline, but so long as they clear up fog and/or give the barbs multiple places to go to (thus spreading the trouble from the swarm) while being reinforceable you're fine.
katika
Warlord
If you're struggling with barbs, I would keep them close enough so that at least their lines of sight touch. Culture allows you to see one square beyond the borders, so there shouldn't be more than two squares between your fat crosses. Interlocking city radii is best, but sometimes good city locations don't line up so nicely.
If Lizardmen are causing you problems, take Orc Slaying instead of Shock.
OctopusOverload
Cultist
Thanks for these tips, I played a few hundred turns in two different games, and the barbarians got a taste of vengeance 
jprc
My dog is smarter than me
Question 1:
I come to FFH mod because I discovered it through the scenario "Age of Ice".
I noticed in Age of Ice that (some types of) archers were able to reduce my stack health without directly attacking. A bit like would do a siege weapon but without the risk to be destroyed in the attack.
I try to find how to replicate this in the mod FFH (patch k)
I currently play as elfe, and trained an archer: I see nothing (classic attack). I also trained the elfes' hero (an archer), and it can not attack without loosing health (whilst range attack should not).
Do any one knows if there are any promotion / unit in the archery class authorizing this "remote" siege attack without direct contact?
Question 2: (Found the answer, see at bottom)
I can not find in the wiki or in the "Strategy & Tips " thread any information concerning Mana and why accumulating mana resources...
The excellent mini-guide made by Nikis-Knight (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=230759) is civ/leader oriented and does not has this kind of info.
Actually, in the wiki (http://civ4wiki.com/wiki/index.php/FfH_Magic_(Feature)) I saw: "Further, if you have more than one mana of most types when an adept is trained, it will gain corresponding spell sphere promotion."
But I am unable to find any table or idea of how much, and doing what.
What is the effect of cumulating, say, 2 or 3 Nature mana?
(do you know any thread, site, explaining the effects of accumulating mana resources?)
EDITED BY ME (I let the question 2 for reference):
Found in the FAQ (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190988):
1 node: Your units can learn spells of that sphere.
2 nodes: Your adepts start with Rank I of that sphere for free.
3 nodes: Your units start with Rank I and Rank II of that sphere for free.
Question 1 remains
I come to FFH mod because I discovered it through the scenario "Age of Ice".
I noticed in Age of Ice that (some types of) archers were able to reduce my stack health without directly attacking. A bit like would do a siege weapon but without the risk to be destroyed in the attack.
I try to find how to replicate this in the mod FFH (patch k)
I currently play as elfe, and trained an archer: I see nothing (classic attack). I also trained the elfes' hero (an archer), and it can not attack without loosing health (whilst range attack should not).
Do any one knows if there are any promotion / unit in the archery class authorizing this "remote" siege attack without direct contact?
Question 2: (Found the answer, see at bottom)
I can not find in the wiki or in the "Strategy & Tips " thread any information concerning Mana and why accumulating mana resources...
The excellent mini-guide made by Nikis-Knight (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=230759) is civ/leader oriented and does not has this kind of info.
Actually, in the wiki (http://civ4wiki.com/wiki/index.php/FfH_Magic_(Feature)) I saw: "Further, if you have more than one mana of most types when an adept is trained, it will gain corresponding spell sphere promotion."
But I am unable to find any table or idea of how much, and doing what.
What is the effect of cumulating, say, 2 or 3 Nature mana?
(do you know any thread, site, explaining the effects of accumulating mana resources?)
EDITED BY ME (I let the question 2 for reference):
Found in the FAQ (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190988):
1 node: Your units can learn spells of that sphere.
2 nodes: Your adepts start with Rank I of that sphere for free.
3 nodes: Your units start with Rank I and Rank II of that sphere for free.
Question 1 remains
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Question 1:
no, there isn't. Ranged attacks in FfH 2 cone only in the form of magic. There has been some discussion of adding this AoI mechanic, but Kael is opposed to the idea.
no, there isn't. Ranged attacks in FfH 2 cone only in the form of magic. There has been some discussion of adding this AoI mechanic, but Kael is opposed to the idea.
jprc
My dog is smarter than me
Ok.
kael has certainly his reasons, and he is the lead designer: his reasons can be linked to future projects he does not want to speak about yet..
At least I do not waste my time searching for something that does not exist and it is what I wanted to know.
Thank you (again) MagisterCultuum
kael has certainly his reasons, and he is the lead designer: his reasons can be linked to future projects he does not want to speak about yet..
At least I do not waste my time searching for something that does not exist and it is what I wanted to know.
Thank you (again) MagisterCultuum