News: BOTM 16 Final Spoiler: Game Submitted or Abandoned

[kcd_swede]

I rushed through this game towards a diplo win.
Just a question :
is the religious victory compared to UN diplo victory for this award?
If yes, it's a total non sense to go for the UN, but playing mostly HoF where there are 2 different victory conditions I didn't think about it at first

Just an answer: For xOTM...no, Religius and Diplomatic (UN) victory are two seperate categories garnering two seperate medals.
Soooo... as a HoF maniac, do you find the inability to choose civ and opps and MAP-regen until you know you will win a challenge or a pain in the keister?

 

[cabert]

Just an answer: For xOTM...no, Religius and Diplomatic (UN) victory are two seperate categories garnering two seperate medals.
Soooo... as a HoF maniac, do you find the inability to choose civ and opps and MAP-regen until you know you will win a challenge or a pain in the keister?

I'm not exactly a newbye in the GotM. It's just been a while since I last played.

The real challenge is not about the map regens, it's about playing once and only once.
In the gauntlets or the general HoF, you can play multiple games, until you're happy with the result.
It's quite a different purpose. The HoF pushes the limits of what is actually doable in civ, while the XotM lets you compare how you do on a specific game vs the rest of the players.

Note that the XotM rewards the risk at the cost of potentially leaving you in the dust, while HoF rewards the risk at the only cost of playing another game if it fails.

 

[MacBalt]

Conquest, 1884 - Contender Save

Another long military game (but not as difficult as a military VC in a recent "monarch" WOTM, IMHO ). Left Crimson Perry until last, by which time his cities had exploded to cover much of the remaining map. I've had enough island hopping for a while...

Fantastic games from Obormot and ShannonCT, among others. Thanks for the great write-ups!

 

[titanvol]

The good news: I won a space victory in 1866 AD, Adventurer save.

The bad news: it was a reloaded game.

I'll spare most of the write up since it was a reloaded game. My first attempt was the contender save. I made several mistakes being in unchartered waters, pun intended.

1) I always play pangea, had no idea what arch was like.
2) The highest level I have ever played was emporer and only 2 games on that level.
3) Have never played Dutch
4) Have never played a creative civ


I anticipated an AI expansion that just did not happen and as a result I crowded my cities too close together (fitting 3 on my starting landmass) because I did not think i would be able to build many. I was actually worried about an AI settling my starting island. Built practically no infrastructure in capitol and started spamming settlers after GLH.

I built way too few ships.

It did not occur to me until halfway through the game when I had conquered a barb city that the best way to build a workboat is to let the city grow to 2 pop, build for 1 turn, then whip.

It also did not occur to me that with creative trait & double speed of libraries I could let a city grow to size 4, build library for 1 turn then whip it for 2 citizens until very late in the game.

Rushed to build GLH when there was no danger of losing it, no danger whatsoever.

On my first attempt I just could not get anything going, I fell behind in tech, could not get trading opportunities because I could never research a tech the AI did not already have. I kept planning for a war, but never able to get in a position to fight it. It was pretty late in the game and was certain I would lose so I decided instead of plodding through a lost cause I would try to learn how to win. I played a few more test games and then began my 2nd attempt and cruised to victory. I was on my way to a domination victory when midway through the destruction of Portugal (having wiped out England w/ an axe rush and Carthage with maces / trebs) I just got tired of the tediousness of moving troops around with ships and killing off galleons / frigates with my destroyers and decided to sue for peace, bring my troops home and go on autopilot for a space race.

Despite having to reload for victory I did learn how to play an arch map and it was an enjoyable game.

 

[The-Hawk]

I don't have much experience on island maps, so I went for a space win. I finally finished with a pretty mundane 1920 win. I decided to be conservative so I REX'd and built a solid economy before going after any neighbors. My first (and only) war was with Inf and cannons against Joao, primarily motivated to get oil, coal, and gold. In hindsight, I waited too long to expand my lands, I should have gone after a couple of neighbors with maces and cats. Anyhow, my conservative economy was too small for a fast finish. However, as a few others mentioned, a win on Immortal is never a bad thing .

Niklas, great job on a well themed xOTM. Was fun to play. Aarrrr!

 

[VerbalKint]

Space victory 1903...
Pretty fun early game, winning London changed everything!
Mainly because of the Collosus, I have really underestimated that wonder before... when it went obsolete i lost 200-ish bpt(from 1100 something to 800 something).
When did they change it from single-city to empire-wide?

As usual, uninteresting late-game. Luckily I spawned a great scientist about the same time I realised I had no aluminium, so I founded that corp for the first time ever. Mashed end turn until I got my 2nd immortal win ever, pretty easily. Had no real competition at all, was game leader since I wiped out viccy.

 

[ngraner42]

Pedestrian space win, I think 1938, but happy with an Immortal victory. It was a fun game, fighting to the end. I built my first Missle Cruiser (I needed it) and built the Internet for the first time in GOTM play (I needed it). Probably expanded too slowly early and too much later. Switched to Enviromentalism at the end to help grow cities, but ended up selling late techs at 100-200gp each just to maintain the needed 50% culture and 0% research.

 

[greatbeyond]

Space Loss to Joao in 1940AD.

I did manage to stay alive after my disastrous start, and even got some more city sites and poured on the research. I was still last in techs but getting closer. I had decided my only chance was a cultural victory, and dropped several GAs into the 1 city I took from England, managing to turn the tide of the culture creep and even pushing it back. I doubt I could have gotten all 3 cities to 50K if the game had lasted to 2050.

Just one question Niklas. Did you hand edit all those Islands in?

 

[Niklas]

Just one question Niklas. Did you hand edit all those Islands in?

I guess I can give you a sneak peak into the minds of the evil map maker.

I generated a few maps, and picked the one I liked the best. Then I went over that map and removed some snippets of land here and there to split larger islands up, except in the ice belt. The aim was to have no non-ice island support more than two cities. The islands where the settler and warrior started were originally connected for instance . The reason for this is that I wanted this game to have an emphasis on the sea, to better fit the theme of the game, but also to let you practice sea-born invasions, which is a highly useful skill even in a less extreme game.

I knew not everyone would appreciate the "tedium" involved, but I tried to mitigate by using a small map. Most of you seem to have had a lot of fun with it though, so I'm very pleased with the outcome. Thanks for all the kind words on the theme - I just hope I'm not setting the bar too high for future games...

 

[beestar]

After reaching Destroyer tech, having no oil and NOT getting access to them through my uranium hookup for some reason, I changed over to a full culture attempt. I switched to caste system and pacifism, seeded Amsterdam with 4 religions that my city spam had picked up, blitzed to flight to seed my cities for the necessary temples, picked up mass media for the radio towers (Eiffel was no longer available) and then ran to Computers.

Maybe a dumb question, but did you have the Fission technology in addition to controlling a uranium resource?

 

[Orry]

I took the adventurer save this time, since I've never won on immortal, technically I'm not supposed to since I finished in the top half of the field in GOTM 32 with a score of 2065 , but I decided to break the rules anyway. I think that extra workboat helped me out a lot.
I decided beforehand to go for a space victory since I wanted to put those Levees to good use and use all those delicious coastal tiles for the research. The only wonder I built early on was the Great Lighthouse in 1000BC, which was a great help with early research.

I had 6 cities by 600AD, at this point I was pretty boxed in and decided I was going to have to relieve Vicky of her 3 cities since she was so far behind in tech. It took me a while to get round to this but I declared in 1020 and finished her with Macemen against her Longbowmen in 1390. I didn't realise how bad catapults were at bombarding in BtS though, I should have been using trebuchets instead. this slowed me down somewhat.

Next at the bottom of the score list was Joao, also with 3 cities. I wasn't sure whether to go for him or leave him be and concentrate on research. I went for him anyway with Grenadiers vs Musketmen, and finished him in 1755. Got my most productive city (Lisbon) out of it which was helpful.
Built Sids Sushi in 1740, not having done so before I wasn't sure what I was going to do with it, next time I think I'll have a better idea. I think I lost out on some of its value by not micromanaging my cities to make sure they didn't just grow into unhappiness without gaining anything.

After The War with Portugal I was a small way behind on tech, and coming 4th on score I think behind Perry, Hannibal and Kon. I set about trying to catch up. in 1890 I had my Apollo Program, and I was producing spaceship components fast enough as my production vastly outstripped the AI, unfortunately I was still lagging behind in tech.

Fortunately the Internet came to my rescue and the rest of my cities wasted there time building whatever buildings they could think of while I waited for it to complete. It did in 1934 and to my joy I 'discovered' 10 technologies in one go. There were only 2 left then but Wang Kon had both of them and I was still worried his spaceship was going to be finished before mine. Fortunately after a tense period of waiting to see if someone was going to beat me, I completed my spaceship in 1960, for a 1971 win. First win on Immortal yay! (albeit adventurer save on what seemed to be an easy map)
One major thing that slowed me down I think was not using specialists as much as I should have. and towards the end when I did have tonnes of them thanks to sids sushi, I should have been running representation instead of universal suffrage. Still I'm happy with my win.
Thanks to Niklas for the map!

 

[beestar]

My first game at Immortal so I thought I'd play it safe with a space victory. It didn't quite work out that way ...

troytheface would have been proud

I first met Vicky with London only a few tiles away, guarded by only one or two archers and with a few Wonders in it already: that backstabber might as well have had a huge target painted on her back. I conquered her in around 50BC with axes and elephants. Highlight: following Attacko's theories and capturing London with an AMPHIBIOUS ELEPHANT! (well, an unpromoted War Elephant attacking from a galley, not a GG-promoted War Elephant, but still).

Peace sucks

The AIs were all peaceful with each other - there wasn't a war that I didn't start. This made it really difficult to pit one AI against the other, and all I could do was stay friendly with big boys Hannibal and Joao. (I crushed Vicky, Perry, and Wang Kon and left them alive so that they would be the most hated AIs instead of me being the most hated AI - maybe this was a mistake because the big AIs didn't start to fight each other?)

Playing catch-up, twice

AI tech trading was very fast and I was well behind on tech for most of the game. Fortunately, knowing which techs were unpopular let me trade my way to the front, and I got Liberalism first. But something went wrong. Hannibal's rapid tech pace was vaulting him into the lead and I was too weak to challenge him: he had Robotics when I was just finishing Industrialism! (Power curve attached to this post)

The only thing saving me was how friendly everyone was with each other. There was only one thing to do: exploit AI strategic blind spots by being very, very focused. I founded Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc., giving me a massive population and production boost. Then I beelined for Computers and used my Ironworks city to build the Internet, which saved my butt by netting me six modern techs.

Would. You. Like. To. Play. A. Game?

With my newfound tech parity with the AIs, I probably could have leveraged my superior production to win the space race, but where's the fun in that? Instead, I built a huge modern army and finished the Manhattan Project. With my Mining Inc.-driven production advantage, it was easy to construct a huge arsenal of ICBMs and Tac Nukes, and SDI just to be safe. At that point, it was just a question of waiting for Hannibal to launch, capturing Carthage to end his dreams of reaching Alpha Centauri, and then using tactical nukes to conquer the rest of his empire in 4 turns. It was an easy war but an insane pile of micromanagement to run a naval war with air support.

Since I was far too late for a respectable Domination victory, I then went for Conquest by attacking Joao. I almost did it, too, except my Sushi-powered cities rapidly expanded into the conquered Carthaginian territory, putting me over the Dom limit just one turn before I would have achieved a Conquest victory. Result: a disreputable 1968 Domination Victory rather than an (equally disreputable but more satisfying) 1969 Conquest Victory. Still, I'm pleased with my first Immortal victory, even if it was with the advantages of Willem on an archipelago map. Cheers to Niklas and the rest of the GOTM staff!

Lessons learned

1. Railroads improve quarries as well as mines and lumber mills
2. Don't try to fight a modern war with hundreds of units on an 800 MHz laptop
3. Despite the film "War Games," the AI sucks at thermonuclear war and doesn't realize that my building The Manhattan Project is a warning sign that it probably should smack me down before fissile hell rains down on its cities.

And a Question

If I conquer Hannibal's capital while he is building his spaceship, do I eliminate all his production, or does it simply move to his new capital? I wasn't sure so I waited until his spaceship launched and then captured Carthage - I knew that would do the trick, but it delayed my invasion.

 

[Olmo2]

Cultural Loss to Crimson Perry in 2031

As I started submitting games again I think it is time to provide a short write up as well.
Settled in place, built the GLH in 1680 BC, Colossus in 225 AD, then started expanding. So far a pretty standard opening.
Situation in 500 AD: Vicky is top in score, followed by Hannibal, Willem is on place 5.
Mad Viking is at war with Long Kon since 375BC, none of my business, both are too far away.
6 cities, 2-3 techs behind, nr. 2 in land and production.
Next centuries dedicated to expansion and research.
First to liberalism in 1135, took astronomy and started to build east india men to prepare an invasion fleet, because Joaos culture started to press on my western city on the hill island.
DOW on Joao in 1320, tried to take Lissabon but the city was too well defended (or my attack force too weak) so I changed plans and started to take 4 secondary cities first (to build up some veterans) before I conquered Lissabon in 1630. Portugal was eliminated in 1695.

Since I was starting to lag behind in research, I had to think about victory conditions. Space race was still an option but domination was another one.

Next planned target for my army was England. As I started to examine a little closer I saw what? English destroyers! And I had Line Ships as best navy units. Baah.
Tech up and attack then. Nice idea, but things went different.
1760 Hannibal declares on Long Kon.
1795 Vicky declares on Willem. Fortunately during all my wars the AI never managed to assemble and land an invasion force despite having numerous transport ships. So I had to sneak my landing forces past superior English destroyers. In the meantime (1816) Hannibal finishes the Apollo Project. Uiuiui.
I start to take the first english cities in 1868. Troop transport takes so long beeing forced to hope from port to port not having naval supremacy.
1909 Mad Viking declares war on Crimson Perry. Let them have their fun, I am still busy with Vicky. I take, loose and retake Hastings (2nd city on the English main island) and make peace in 1935.

I declare on Vicky in 1953 and finally take London in 1954. Then some more cities and make peace again on 1970 as Hannibal is busy building space ship parts.
So lets take Hannibal out. The cannibal must have smelled that something's coming and declares himself on 1971! So from one war directly to the other.
After two other cities Karthago is liberated in 2010. Hannibal had just one spaceship part missing.
So I start to take some more of his cities until I have a look to the victory screen: Long Kon also needs just one more part before he can launch! Oh my god.
I declare peace to Hannibal in 2020 and divert my forces to the west. Long Kon has 5 cities in total.
In 2023 I am ready to attack and declare. Airports are a great help in moving troops from one corner of my empire to the other. Long Kon launches his spaceship in 2024, in 2028 I take Seoul, bye bye spaceship. Uff, and now lets take the last Korean city.
And now? Ok mop up the rest of the English and of Hannibal.
But first another look on the victory screen: What’s this? Crimson Perry has one legendary city and two other with 48’000 and something cultural points.
I gather my navy, my transport ships and airplanes, let my troops heal for 2 rounds and move them all to the greek border just outside the city with 49600 points ready to declare the next turn. Ui this will be tough.
I hit the return button and then: Crimson Perry has won a cultural victory! Baah.
But since I only had about 40% of land and population I would never have reached the domination limit in time even if I had attacked earlier.
I really exciting game, trying to prevent the different AIs from winning.
Main mistakes:
Starting first war (against Joao or Vicky) too late
Trying to build the pyramids.
Not building enough transports.
Trying to take Lissabon with too less units.

 

[ShannonCT]

Welcome to the forums Olmo. Sounds like you had an exciting game.

 

[m4gill4]

Highlight: following Attacko's theories and capturing London with an AMPHIBIOUS ELEPHANT! (well, an unpromoted War Elephant attacking from a galley, not a GG-promoted War Elephant, but still).

Well that's where you went wrong! Also, you should have chosen your first target based on the color of their civ, not the proximity to your empire! Orange is the color of Halloween, which gives a clue into the subconscious assumptions of the developers, indicating that Hannibal should be the first enemy! Did you remember to apply catastrophism? And of course remember that the main priority is to build the statue of Zeus and the Shwedagon Paya, which will cause a crippling psychological blow to the AI as shown in countless venn diagrams....

 

[smitsk00]

Vicious DoWed me in the 1500's. Sacked my capital with a surprisingly large and sudden stack. I abandoned the game. Should have played adventurer...

 

[jesusin]

This exception to the city distance rule is good for Sushi-milking on archipeligo maps.

Had I known before!



Thanks, Niklas, wonderful map, plenty of fun. It's a pity I wasted it going for points and turning what should have been a fun game into a real chore. I hate going for points. I've been sweating for 59 hours over the computer, only to get a far-too-soon domination victory that won't get me the gold and a lousy score of 430K.
Do I really want a heptathlete statue so much as to not enjoy the games? I have to think seriously about this. This is a game, isn't it? I could end up hating Civ if I follow this way.


Just a couple of examples how stupid a high scoring game is:
- A perfectly executed cultural game, won in 1400AD scores some 60K. A lousy played score game won in 1800AD scores 400K.
- A "research-oriented" Hannibal with an "Empire" of 4 cities can out-tech the "glorius" fattest civ in the world, with 55 cities.
- From 1685AD to 1785AD I doubled my population and accordingly added some 160K to my score. However, at the end of that period I had half the people working! I had a glorius super-fat civ of angry faces!

All this feels wrong. Far too wrong.



My spoiler later, when my spirits are higher.

 

[jesusin]

With a comfortable tech lead, riflemen, frigates and cannons obliterate Elizabeth and Hannibal by 1820. The Koreans build the UN around that time. I move my forces on and obliterate the Vikings. The vote comes up for me to be UN leader and I vote for myself, and capture just enough votes to be successful, saving me the bother of micromanaging my army to destroy the rest of them.

War-assisted diplomatic victory in 1842 for 87k or so.

You mean, nobody voted for you? I thought that was impossible!

 

[jesusin]

Again, want to emphasise not only how much fun (and different) this GOTM was, and how fun cultural victories actually are (try it if you haven't yet) ... I was looking forward to this one and it definately delivered

Sure they are! I should start playing for culture again.

Next time try not researching further than Liberalism and turning 100% culture then. Analyze if you like it better or worst and don't forget to report back!

I stopped my research after Liberalism (took nationalism). I'm not sure, but maybe going to economics to get Free Market civic and customs house would have been better.

I think it would have been a bad idea. Lots of turns of 100% culture wasted on 100% research only to get 1 more traderoute (and 1 additional coin in every traderoute if you further invest hammers into customs). I think it wouldn't have paid off.

Legendary cities were:
1. Capital settled in place with National Epic, Globe Theatre, 3 cathedrals and Sid's Sushi
2. Main production city settled on copper island with hermitage, 3 cathedrals and Sid's Sushi. Bombed 2 GAs
3. 3 fish city on another island to the east, with Sids Sushi. Bombed 8 GAs

I've yet to try a cultural victory with sushi. Please help me:

Didn't your 3rd city have cathedrals?
Was your GPFarm one of the 3?
Which year did you get Liberalism? And sushi?
Could you run 100% after you spread sushi to your 3 cities?
How much food/culture was sushi adding with so smal an empire?

 

[jesusin]

a) Is +8 also enough for an UN diplo victory?
b) Are these hidden modifieres somewhere documented or can I extract them from the XML files?

a) Yes

b) The trick I use is this: look at the moment a civ goes from Cautious to Pleased with you. Say it is Pleased only at +5. He should have been at +3 normally, so the hidden factor for that civ is -2. You need him at +10 in order for him to vote for you.