Pandemonis
Warlord
I for myself will try and use the so-called "fair" combat system, as I foudn the idea interesting and I want to give it a try. 
NEWS: FFHOTM 01 Pre-Game Discussion
- Thread starter Vulcans
- Start date
the FFHOTM decision was made as it seemed like more people would be interested in playing the unmodified version, and .
in a test you can only change one variable. GOTM removes the variable of different maps, making the only variable here being each persons ability and choice of stratergy. changing the rules of one persons game won't make it comparable to a different persons game. it's even more so if you get a casual gamer to play one set of rules, and try to compare it to a veteran player playing a different set of rules.
it's like having one person playing civ3 and a totally different person playing civ4. which person wins? which person has more fun? it's uncomparable as they are different people.
if you really wanted to compare it, then ideally you'd need to have everyone play both styles. however that's not realy uncomparable as then they would already know the map.
so the next best thing would be to have one FFHOTM play one style of game, and the next FFHOTM play the other style of game. one set of rules might be easier than the other, but it's not about what makes the game easier, but what makes it more fun.
This is all off topic, so i will reply to your comments in the removing randomness thread.
in a test you can only change one variable. GOTM removes the variable of different maps, making the only variable here being each persons ability and choice of stratergy. changing the rules of one persons game won't make it comparable to a different persons game. it's even more so if you get a casual gamer to play one set of rules, and try to compare it to a veteran player playing a different set of rules.
it's like having one person playing civ3 and a totally different person playing civ4. which person wins? which person has more fun? it's uncomparable as they are different people.
if you really wanted to compare it, then ideally you'd need to have everyone play both styles. however that's not realy uncomparable as then they would already know the map.
so the next best thing would be to have one FFHOTM play one style of game, and the next FFHOTM play the other style of game. one set of rules might be easier than the other, but it's not about what makes the game easier, but what makes it more fun.
This is all off topic, so i will reply to your comments in the removing randomness thread.
Smarter Orcs 0.15 was just released. I figured I'd write a sentence or two so you can determine how this impact you (if at all).
The older 0.14 is still available here. 0.15 changes bonus evaluation (mostly so that it hopefully no longer crashes multi-player games), and fixes one crash defect. The two versions are not inter-compatible; 0.15 breaks saved games from 0.14 to support the multi-player synchronization fix.
The older 0.14 is still available here. 0.15 changes bonus evaluation (mostly so that it hopefully no longer crashes multi-player games), and fixes one crash defect. The two versions are not inter-compatible; 0.15 breaks saved games from 0.14 to support the multi-player synchronization fix.
Great to know. we'll use smarter orcs 0.15 for FFHOTM 02.
I'll be posting the saved game in a couple of hours.
Mahatmajon
Prince
Any chance to make this Normal speed? I've been messing around with smarter orcs today and had forgotten how slow FFH2 is. I'm glad it's only a small map but I'd still much rather do normal speed.
R0GERSHRUBBER
Shrubber
I agree: who has time to play Epic? Normal is the standard, after all, and generally conceded to be the setting to which FFH has been balanced.
ok, i'll make it small map normal speed.
i've also noticed Smarter Orcs slowing it down significantly. i wonder if it'd be possible to actually get thecomputer to do some thinking while the player is making their turn. of course the AI wouldent know exactly what the human will do, but it'll have a slight idea, and it's free processing time as the human normally takes longer to make thier moves.
just like in chess, my friends take so long to think, and by the time they have made their move i've pradicted several of their move options, and already thought out the counter for each of their mostlikely moves, so i can move instantly. and they wonder why i can make instant moves, well because i'd been thinking about it for the last 15min while they were busy.
anyway, i guess that's a bit off topic, best to talk about it in the smarter orcs thread.
i've also noticed Smarter Orcs slowing it down significantly. i wonder if it'd be possible to actually get thecomputer to do some thinking while the player is making their turn. of course the AI wouldent know exactly what the human will do, but it'll have a slight idea, and it's free processing time as the human normally takes longer to make thier moves.
just like in chess, my friends take so long to think, and by the time they have made their move i've pradicted several of their move options, and already thought out the counter for each of their mostlikely moves, so i can move instantly. and they wonder why i can make instant moves, well because i'd been thinking about it for the last 15min while they were busy.
anyway, i guess that's a bit off topic, best to talk about it in the smarter orcs thread.
giddion
Crusader
I do agree it takes longer but I find it is much better on Epic, as you get to really utilise each Tech.
But am happy to play it on norm... Maybe have a poll after this map to see what others think?
But am happy to play it on norm... Maybe have a poll after this map to see what others think?
yes, epic does take a bit longer. it does have a significant advantage in early warmongering, as any slight lead can be utelized to take out a unprepaired opponent. while normal the game progresses faster, and units become obsolete faster. but then you're likely to get furthur down the tec path.
Amurites really shine in the mid game, when their twin-cast mages come out, and when govannon comes out to teach all the units to cast spells, making it arguably one of the strongest mid-game civilizations.
changing it to normal will mean you'll reach the mid-game sooner. and once there i think the game is simply a pushover. therefore making the most fun of a challenge in the early section of the game.
on a small map on epic, there is a risk that some people won’t even get to experience the mid-game if they conquer the world too fast. So changing it to normal will increase the tec pace, and give these people a chance to make use of the mid-game units.
I’m thinking of making this one at normal speed. I welcome feedback now and after playing the game for improvements for future games.
Amurites really shine in the mid game, when their twin-cast mages come out, and when govannon comes out to teach all the units to cast spells, making it arguably one of the strongest mid-game civilizations.
changing it to normal will mean you'll reach the mid-game sooner. and once there i think the game is simply a pushover. therefore making the most fun of a challenge in the early section of the game.
on a small map on epic, there is a risk that some people won’t even get to experience the mid-game if they conquer the world too fast. So changing it to normal will increase the tec pace, and give these people a chance to make use of the mid-game units.
I’m thinking of making this one at normal speed. I welcome feedback now and after playing the game for improvements for future games.
MisterBenn
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2006
- Messages
- 126
I played a test run with settings as above (Monarch, Small Continents, Raging Barbs, Agg AI, 5 players, Epic speed, Better AI .14) and I think I'm reconsidering that statement. As long as you set up an adequate defence force with the right promotions, the player seems to fend off the raging barbarians FAR more effectively than the AI players. Two players were wiped out and Garrim Gyr only had a second city up after 150 turns. By that time I had four or five cities and I suspect I wasn't close to optimal expansion.
As a result I'm 40% ahead of the one known opponent on my island and only one other player left. And this is without a civ with an early game strength (i.e. defensive / raider / barb traits). On normal speed with regular barbs, I'm rarely top of the scores upon getting a 2nd and 3rd city on even Prince level, and am playing catch up into the middle game. (I am not an expert!)
Perhaps it was the random map I had or perhaps luck, but it seems to me that adding raging barbs equate to a reduction in difficulty level, so long as you survive their early onslaught. Is my experience typical? Does Better AI make a difference (I thought I read the AI bonuses versus barbs was reduced) ?
P.S. I'm really looking forward to playing the game of the month!!! I appreciate the work going into organising this.
bluedevil99
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 139
Agreed. I've been trying out these settings gearing up for the GOTM, and while the early game is hectic, after that I'm dominating. Raging barbs makes it very easy to put together an elite force of level 6+ units that will just steamroll through units even of the same tier. The AI ends up with some high level hunters but nothing like the force you can field.
With these settings (Monarch/AAI/Raging, Small Conts) I was on pace for my fastest domination victory ever with the Hippus yesterday. I rushed to HBR and pumped out stables and horsemen in my first city before even settling the second, and by the time I settled my second city, hey look, there's the Bannor capital sitting right there, and what do you know, I have four combat V/shock/commando horsemen...
Anyway I'm still looking forward to this game. Even briefly thought about giving the Challenger setting a try, but I don't think I'm ready for Emperor just yet.
yes, barbs are an advantage on any dificulty level. as long as you survive the first couple of battles, promotions make a huge difference! and the barbs don't get much harder over the game, they keep sending lizardmen well into the game, at worse they might catch a ungaurded worker near the boarder, but are just feeging the experiance of elite forces, effectively prepairing you for the aI.
also epic is much easier then normal, especially if you want to make early moves. especially if playing something like Hippus on epic.
also epic is much easier then normal, especially if you want to make early moves. especially if playing something like Hippus on epic.
MisterBenn
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2006
- Messages
- 126
Having always played Normal Speed and regular barbs, I didn't realise the amount of difference that Epic and Raging made. When I saw the initial suggested difficulties for the three levels of FFHOTM were Monarch/Emperor/Deity, I figured my skills were totally off the pace! Having tried the rules out they are far more sensible than I originally concluded, and my pride is restored a bit!
giddion
Crusader
raging barbs = training ground
As long as you focus on defense rather then growth in the early game it is pretty easy.
I always see a few other civs fall in the early game, that's why I always add several extra. On a small map I have 7 civs in total, 8 or 9 on standard.
I like epic turns because it slows down the tech tree and makes you utilise the lessor units better.
As long as you focus on defense rather then growth in the early game it is pretty easy.
I always see a few other civs fall in the early game, that's why I always add several extra. On a small map I have 7 civs in total, 8 or 9 on standard.
I like epic turns because it slows down the tech tree and makes you utilise the lessor units better.
Mahatmajon
Prince
Thanks for the work Vulcans!
