Next Eastern Ctiy

[Memphus]

Next City In the East.

Why Always accept what Krill tells us?

Sometimes we need to think for ourselves!

Ok but onto the Actuall Poll.

We have a Settler comming out of JD after we end our next turn.

The intial plan was to send it here:

Spoiler :

It would arrive on T99 using specific worker movements.

alternatively We could send it here:

Spoiler :

With the Red circle Being my choice (def and Los vs. Kaz) But the Yellow X and Blue Triangle are equally good sites that coudl be argued for.
This city Can be settled on T100.

So Let's look at the 2 sites:

A: Has Wheat We have Wheat
B: Has Pigs, a new unique Health Resource

A: Has workers present
B: Needs workers from OO

But this let's us bring back workers from A, leaving 1 maybe to improve the gold site, and redirect them to the JD Jungle. OO has it's best tiles doen and it can work specialists.

A: Reinforces Gold City
B: Reinforces Gold City Better, as it gives us Ubber early warning of a Kaz attack

Ultimately this City is a beacon for our Defence network and the sooner we get it the better we can be prepared agaisn't Kaz.


So Why Not get both of them Before T105? Wait for a Krill Rebuttle....

Spoiler for entire continent and city locations.

Spoiler :

 

[regoarrarr]

I'm confused by your first picture

 

[Memphus]

Edited: have a look again

 

[Krill]

the other option is to chop out a settler in OO. We chop the 1 forest in the cities radius, and start building a settler this turn. The city would be founded on t103

Arguments for:

1. OO was going to be our main GP pump (and research city) for the medium term; it would be delayed. but who needs research when you have an ally teching better than you, and you are feeding them gold to research at 100%?
   
   
2. OO has no more improved tiles to work...it was going to work scientists...but now not doing that will leave us the option of getting an artist to bomb with if we think it would be wise. (Also known as hedging our bets against Kaz going for Music)
   
   
3. We would be chopping the 1 forest in OO. 1 forest, without maths, to speed it by a grand total of 2 turns. Necessarry? Arguably, but that forest is getting chopped into a forge otherwise, because it's a worthless tile that needs to be irrigated, so the loss is 10 hammers for another city compared to a slightly quicker city improvement. I'd call that an advantage
   
   
4. We also have the city over in the east; we aren't going to be able to get any settlers out for the forseeable future as FC, IS, JD are all growing, and CK may or may not be busy getting the SW set up or cramming units down Kazs' throat.
   
   
5. The workers are already in place in the east, and not building that eastern city is going to make at least 1 of those workers redundant, we'll have to waste time bringing him back to JD to chop jungle.

Arguments against

1. We are getting low on workers. True, but we aren't going to be in great need to chop jungle and improve JD if we aren;t getting calendar next (and we won't be if we are going to war). So We are OK atm on workers, and all of the south and eastern cities are mainly working coastal tiles anyway, so we don't exactly need a ton of them.
   
   
2. 3 turns slower on getting the city. Well it's true...
   
   
3. Limited city defenders. If kaz boats us we are slightly screwed...but we'd be screwed anyway.

 

[Krill]

Data required if anyone else wants to run ithe above worker turns/city builds/labourer allocations through their heads (it's all I've done, I'll sim it after my last exam tomorrow when I sober up sometime later on the week. No promises though), but I know I'm right with the numbers, disregarding overflow amounts...

Both workers at OO have to irrigate this turn and next to to finish irrigation.

Workers in the east can get the gold improved for next turn and still get road in place for t99 settling of teh far eastern city (1 tile difference...east v far east). Bonus marks for anyone who wants to figure out how and has enough effort to do it before I sober up. FYI both workers roading atm finish on t95, leaving us with 1 unallocated worker turn for t95.

PS poll is non-binding.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I have a couple of problems with the southern pig location.

1) It's not a great site - we get pigs, yes, but long term, there are a lot of useless tiles and not a lot of resources.
2) It's very hard to defend if cav sends any real force to it.
3) btw - which is correct? The first pic or the large screen pic? the large screen pic show 2 rows of hills south of the pigs.
4) Might run into some culture border issues with Kaz at some point.

if we want an alternative, why not the pig/clam site to the east? lots of jungle, I know, but more resources.

 

[Krill]

1. We need cities on all of our land, and we are getting the GLH+Collosus; all coastal sites are good sites. We are going to plant it anyway, at some point. (I laugh in the face of city maintenence).
2. If Kaz invade they need to have invested hammers into a navy...which they have had no reason to do. Also we have MC...they don't, and we have 1 forest in the city BFC to chop, and 1 just outside...if we need a trireme, we have it.
3. First 2 pics are correct. All world map pics I made have been from a sim that I have tried to make as accurate as possible. I don't always succeed.
4. Nope, culture imput into tiles = (something like) culture level (ie how many times borders have expanded) * 20+culture per turn. So for Kaz to ever impose themselves on the useful tiles of the city that would have to be a legendary city for culture...so no problem.

The whole point of getting that city up and running is five fold:

1. LOS into any incoming Kaz stacks
2. Kaz can't easily land and culture bomb us to the South (yes, I'm more worried about this than most other things)
3. Protects OO (a much more important city) by forcing Kaz to deal with the coastal city first.
4. It's a coastal city. All coastal tiles (which are used to grow) give us 4 commerce, and we get an extra 2 trade routes.
5. Cultural defence. We are going to plant this city anyway, and it is the first port of call for Kaz if they boat us. We want to get it up to 40% cultural defence asap to **** them about and make it hard for them to attack us.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

All the sites we are talking about are coastal - being coastal isn't anything special in this discussion.

The question is: safe and easy, or strategic and sticking our neck out? Planting that city down there is more aggressive. That's not bad, since we have the biggest army, and setting it up that way means that people have to place cities that are very vulnerable behind our lines if they want them.

I dunno - I worry about the crappy land down there, but I like the idea of saying "oh, you think the barb city is in your influence? Influence this, buddy!!"

 

[IamJohn]

The more and more I think about it the more I like the southern spot, sure the the land isn't amazing, but in terms of conflict with kaz it's far more useful IMO which makes it better IMO. I vote south (edit-though just building both works too....)

 

[Memphus]

The more and more I think about it the more I like the southern spot, sure the the land isn't amazing, but in terms of conflict with kaz it's far more useful IMO which makes it better IMO. I vote south.

But if you could have both would you? (by T105?)

 

[IamJohn]

See edit

 

[Krill]

Honestly? I've never thought this through when sober. Memphus through this at me as I was going through my first pint of the eveing?

Everything I've posted has been my thoughts, and those are, that we do want this southern city down now asap, with a settler from OO.

How do we defend it?

We defend it with the knowledge Kaz had a tiny MFG in the past and therefore won't have 2 galleys. We defend it with Stikstof and Funny cide, and the knowledge that we would have to revolt to slavery if Kaz boated us anyway; this city just gives us extra notice and makes it less likely to be boated (IMO).

I would rather lose that city, than lose OO. OO will shortly be size 10 with infrastructure, that is not easily replaced. Replacing a small size 4 coastal city though? Meh.

We get 1 archer, and 1 longbow, out of IS, maybe OO afterwards (and maybe FC? Who knows). That is plenty to defend the city, it just may be a little late...but Kaz isn;t going to know about us planting a city there until we have already built it. Along with the axe and chariot (when we build the archer/LB), we have 1 unit to keep OO happy at size 10 and 1 unit that we can send to defend workers as they road through the jungle to the SE.

Basically OO is size 5 with little else to build and no good tiles to work (It is already working a grass forest...I'd be screaming but we have a reason for that). We would slave if we could...but we can't. Getting the Eastern city as well is just a large bonus, as that is going to be a great port city.

 

[regoarrarr]

I voted for both as I too crap on city maintenance

 

[IamJohn]

Which one first though? We all seem to agree we want both cities, the question however is which one to use the settler for.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

what does having all these cities do to our economy? Tank it, or will we still be good?

I'm good with getting them, but at some point, we'll have to start building courts or something...

 

[Memphus]

what does having all these cities do to our economy? Tank it, or will we still be good?

I'm good with getting them, but at some point, we'll have to start building courts or something...

Any Coastal City pays for itself due to GLH and Collosus.

Which one first though? We all seem to agree we want both cities, the question however is which one to use the settler for.

The one to the Far east then. The Settler is complete in JD this turn, no point back tracking with both settlers.

This turn we switch from Lib to Settler in OO, get the Lib afterwards.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

works for me.

 

[Strow]

I like Memphus idea of switching OO to a settler for the southern spot.

 

[Ronnie1]

I will probably vote for BOTH (have not voted yet), but I would vote for the BLUE TRIANGLE site as just the BEST possible location for a city in that area!

 

[Memphus]

-25% defence. If Kaz boats us, we lose that city.