Non-existant build queues - Constitutional amendment?

[Chieftess]

A problem has come up during turn chat: Non-existant build queues. These are caused by a number of factors:

1. Absent governor
2. Change of terms
3. Build queues that are shorter than the turn chat (i.e., 3 improvements taking 8 turns in a 10 turn 'turn chat').
4. Build queues that are ignored.


We need a method to override these queues. A non-existant queue is one in which no build queues is assigned in the city, and no instructions have been posted in the Turn Chat Instructions thread. This is open for discussion

 

[Chieftess]

Currently, I can appoint a new governor, but this doesn't fix the turns in between that are wasted.

Also, what if an instruction doesn't get posted by a department? Say, budget requests from Domestic? The 2/3 quorum isn't good when not everyone shows up in chat. That's the other problem we've been having tonight.

 

[Chieftess]

There also needs to be a "FAQ" of sorts for nominees, so they know what they'll be doing if they're elected.

 

[Octavian X]

Hmm... Governoring for Dummies, anyone?

I do agree, however, that we need some mechanism for the council to override build queues in the turn chat, especially in situations where build queus are not given. We were lucky to find Almightyjosh's queues in his Aspinixian thread. About half the provinces went on 'auto-pilot.'

 

[GenMarshall]

I would have to aggre with Octavian X about overriding empty build queues .

 

[Cyc]

Didn't we just spend a couple of weeks on this problem?

If Almightyjosh's instructions weren't in the Instruction thread, they don't exist. That's been a long standing rule. What's happening here?

 

[Almightyjosh]

Yeah sorry about that... I don't do it all that often though.
I don't think this is so much a cse of getting it so that build ques can be overriden, more that they can be more efficiantly constructed in-turnchat when need be. At the moment ct has to ask and get a poll about EVERY city and it is very labourious.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Cyc
Didn't we just spend a couple of weeks on this problem?

If Almightyjosh's instructions weren't in the Instruction thread, they don't exist. That's been a long standing rule. What's happening here?

Yes and no. What you're thinking of is probably absent governors. The problem is slightly different.

a. Missing build queues. Some governors had build queues that simply ran out. You could have something like "courthouse, factory, harbor", and neglect the fact that you have a turn or two left in the queue (do to the courthouse and factory being built). So, the city goes on tank/mech building.

b. Lack of officials at the turn chat and the 2/3 quorum. Without a 2/3 quorum, we couldn't override "build queues"-on-auto-pilot (that is, just tanks/mechs with no build queue in sight). A situation arose when we were looking for another city to build a space ship part. PDX was already building one (it had to go on PDX's queue, since no other city was in sight). The 2nd productive city was Thebes, whose build queues had just ran out. The governor wasn't there at the time, and we didn't have enough people at the chat to override the build queue in Thebes.

The instructions were:

Thebes - Recycling Centre, Nuclear Power Plant, (then what?)

As you can see, there was a question on Thebes, but without a governor at that time, and 2/3 of the council present, nothing could be decided.

Also, much of the build queues were completed early. If we have to have a vote for each city that doesn't have a build queue (I could probably count atleast 20), then the turn chat will drag on for a VERY long time. We have to allow for gameplay and real-life, not total bueracracy.

 

[donsig]

Now didn't someone suggest that we spend our time finding a way to ensure proper instructions are in the turn chat thread rather than passing a law to remove MIA governors? Didn't someone even go so far as to suggest deputy governors?

CT, the DP doesn't have to vote on every city that doesn't have build queues in place. Let 'em go on auto-pilot till someone wakes up and takes notice. If there are important things to be done (like build spaceship parts in a high production city) then by all means the DP should initiate a vote to rectify the missing build queue for that particular city.

 

[Chieftess]

But, in the constitution, it states:

3. Council Votes (Executive Branch)

• A. A quorum requires the attendance of 2/3 of the Council.
  D. Override Council Vote
  • Called by any Department Leader.
    An affirmative result overrules a presidential veto.
    Unanimous support is required to override the veto.

A. says that 2/3 of the coucil were needed. We didn't even have 2/3 attendence.

 

[Chieftess]

I think we could use Shaitan at every turn chat.

 

[Cyc]

Quoting Donsig:
CT, the DP doesn't have to vote on every city that doesn't have build queues in place. Let 'em go on auto-pilot till someone wakes up and takes notice. If there are important things to be done (like build spaceship parts in a high production city) then by all means the DP should initiate a vote to rectify the missing build queue for that particular city.

I agree with this, Mr. Vice-President (if I was going to be President over something, vice would be right up there with government .). When something important pops up that needs immediate attention, steps should be taken to rectify the situation. Take Khatovar for instance. It had no build queue because it had no Governor. Yet pollution was billowing out from the city into the surrounding area, cutting off food supply. This was noted by several Leaders, but was Khatovar taken off producing wealth so that it could produce a recycling center to cut the pollution substantially? I think you know the answer. Now, one of the irrigated plains is polluted, and I only mention this because it is food. If it was in the mountains it wouldn't be so bad. I'm just saying if the recycling center had been knocked out (I think it might take 3 turns), a lot of the pollution would not have occurred, slowing the decrease in population.

 

[donsig]

Chieftess, you are quoting from the CoL not the constitution. The piece you quote is from Section C, Point 3 and so is the piece I quoted. The piece I quoted is meant to be used in the turn chat while the piece you quoted is meant for the forum. I know I'm going out on a judicial limb here again but I'll stick to my guns here and say there is no quorum requirement for the turn chat spot vote. IIRC Chieftess, we did have spot cabinet votes in term three where only one cabinet member was present and voting.

I would also like to enter this whole discussion into evidence in the CoL and CoS trial. This is a clear indication that we should seriously consider leaving the CoL and CoS behind when we move onto the next demo game.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by donsig
IIRC Chieftess, we did have spot cabinet votes in term three where only one cabinet member was present and voting.

I remember that, but I think that was before the new laws were officially in place.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I guess I don't understand what the 2/3 issue has to do with anything. The quorum rule is different than the 2/3 approval rule, but I think not of those apply here...

The instructions were not there or ran out, that is a communication issue between the DP and Governors.

As to the 2/3 vote and quorum, that is completely unnecessary in this case, as you would not be overriding a build queue (i.e. there is no queue to override.)

My opinion in this case is that a simple spot vote of chat attendees would be justified for a non-existant queue.

Bill
Judge Advocate of Phoenatica

 

[Chieftess]

So, I guess the question then, is how do we go about the process of creating an ingame queue?

Vote on each build that the DP puts in the queue?
Vote on the DP-suggested queue as a whole?
Get input, then have a vote? (i.e., Falcon02's plan, Zarn's plan)

 

[Falcon02]

I'd say Disscussion then a vote on what to do over all, like nearly any in chat decision.

 

[Almightyjosh]

Yeah, sorry about Thebes too, I put in the 'then what?' to get some citizen input, but none was forthcomeing and I was unable to change it in time.

 

[Shaitan]

Conversation on this has been flitting about on several threads so this will be a deja vu post for many people:

There are no quorum requirements for Spot Council Votes (the Council Votes held during a turn chat). There is no need for the DP to set build queues if there are none. There is also no need to do a poll for every decision. The DP plays the game, using the instructions from the forum. When the instructions are lacking, it is the DP's responsibility to fill in instructions. Whether those instructions are to actually do something or to let it ride, it is the DP's responsibility. Polls are for when the DP wants/needs feedback when making a decision. They seem to have grown an aura of official rule but this is not so. Polls in the turn chat are strictly to assist the DP in making decisions.

 

[Falcon02]

I think Shaitan's Right, it does make sence.