Noob question on saving allies

[uh_ohes]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to Civ 5. I'm playing a Continent game on Standard and Level 5 difficulty, I'm just wondering how do you guys normally help your allies?

On my continent, for the first time ever I actually have the upper hand (got lucky with resources), so its been pretty easy to deal with everyone. However, my ally (Genghis Khan) on the other continent is getting pounded left and right by the Persians and the Arabs. On the tech front, I'm still researching refrigeration and stuff, so it will take quite some time for me to prepare a navy to assist him. So far I've helped him economically by giving him around 3000 gp and 50 gpt to pump his economy up (I'm willing to help him more). He's an excellent trade partner (I've been making huge profits by having him on my side) and it's in my interests to keep him around to counter Persian influence (they're #1 on the military demographic, i'm #2) , how do I go about making sure he can defend himself without assisting him militarily? Or by artificially pumping up his economy, am I making things worse?

Also, what units do you guys use for your navy? On a previous game, my Destroyers kept getting pounded by Battleships so I bought Submarines and Battleships to counter that, they got owned by enemy Destroyers and Fighter Jets from a nearby city. It's so frustrating and confusing.

 

[moysturfurmer]

Ask Persia what he wants to declare peace with Mongolia, or buy up some city states in the Persian heartland gift them a giant army, and declare war.

 

[Gravanno]

Yep. 3000 is a of money. Use half to buy city states (or less) and half to build an army. Then, gift the army to the city states and declare war on persia. They should follow

 

[uh_ohes]

I gifted a city state right near Persia 10 helicopter gunships, 3 submarines, 10 jet fighters. In a couple of turns, all of the fighters got destroyed, only 2 gunships were left and there's no account on the submarines. He did manage to burn a city but that was it. Not really effective.

As for Genghis Khan? I don't even know where to start on that... I'll just let this explain it all:

Spoiler :

After investing around a total of 10,000 gp, around 200 gpt per turns for nearly 100 turns now, he gets reduced to that. Absolutely pathetic.

Persia is just unstoppable. It's going to take a while to fight this war without a nuclear option. There's gotta be a better way for getting allies more involved.

 

[gingerbill]

i think once its reached the stage that the enemy CIV is clearly more powerful than your ally its a losing battle. It can still be worth helping him to annoy the enemy but it wont end with your ally winning.

In my limited experience the best unit to gift them is artillery.

 

[vexing]

if you want something done right, do it yourself - trying to help the AI via unit / gold gifts is an ineffectual choice.

also gifting units that require strategic resources to a city state gives them a -50% strategic resource penalty in combat. artillery / mech infantry are the best units you can gift

 

[Maktaka]

Also, what units do you guys use for your navy? On a previous game, my Destroyers kept getting pounded by Battleships so I bought Submarines and Battleships to counter that, they got owned by enemy Destroyers and Fighter Jets from a nearby city. It's so frustrating and confusing.

Submarines are great naval assassins, but they're so easy to kill by Destroyers you have to dart them in and out lest they get detected. Have them hang back slightly behind your main fleet, then scoot in to pop enemy ships as they make their presence known before falling back behind your fleet again. They do not work well on their own as enemy Destroyers get a big fat 100% damage bonus against them. Beware letting them get too close to cities: they reveal themselves when they attack so you can end up seeing your sub blasted out of the water by artillery fire after sinking that enemy Battleship.

Destroyers are hard-counters to submarines as long as you get the first shot off, and soft-counters to planes. Destroyers can, if set on air interception, protect everything within two tiles of themselves from air assaults. They only have a 40% interception rate though (Missile Cruisers later on have a 100% interception chance and a three tile coverage range), so you'll need two or three per two or three Battleships providing overlapping coverage to ensure adequate air defenses for your fleet.

In the industrial era, a core of Battleships with sufficient escort of Destroyers to intercept air units and a couple submarines for ship sniping is good. You can drop the submarines if need be, but it'll turn naval combat into a slugging match and when you're in hostile territory and unable to heal, slugging matches drag you down to where the AI's superior build rate at AI 5+ will ultimately win out. If you can't get subs, capture a coastal city on the enemy continent quick so you can heal up.

On that note, make sure to invade with a couple infantry that were promoted with Amphibious. Straight invasions from the sea are terrible without the promotion, and trying to invade a coastal city by landing next to it and THEN attacking is a meat grinder as your landing units are blasted apart on arrival before they ever attack.

Missile Cruisers ultimately replace both Battleships (slightly less ranged damage, but adds air interception and missile capacity) and Destroyers (superior air interception). Keep some Nuclear Submarines in the fleet too for anti-sub duty if/when your Destroyers start to get picked off. Nuclear Submarines have a 50% damage bonus against subs, which regular Submarines lack.

On that note of air interception, keep your main fleet clustered together. Ships have tons of movement points so you can maneuver around in your group if need be, but you can only get air protection within that short range.



Regarding your ally, there's really only two good ways to help an ally: human wall or outright attack. Getting open borders and surrounding his city with your units will keep it from getting captured as well as ensuring the tiles your troops are on can always be worked by the city. You won't have to declare war on the enemy, but it requires a significant unit count investment, it will fail every 30 turns when Open Borders ends and your units are ejected to neutral territory, and ultimately is unlikely to cause the aggressor to declare peace as you're not causing him unit or city losses.

Saving Mongolia is a lost cause now, but if you interject in such a situation earlier, get Open Borders with the allied civilization so you can safely land your army sans naval escort, then declare war and start working over the attacker. Stick near your ally's cities at first for their protective fire (and to fall back behind to heal if necessary), but ultimately you'll need to take a city or two to ensure the AI thinks you're a threat they need to put all their attention towards and thus declare peace with your ally. After that you can declare peace yourself or finish the job. Whether you sell/gift your ally's former cities back to him as you move forward is up to you. Personally, I'm of the opinion that unless they can't make for a useful trading partner with their remaining set, you should keep them for yourself since they obviously didn't take good care of them the first time around.

 

[uh_ohes]

Maktaka, that was an excellent post, very helpful. Thanks!

 

[apocalypse105]

Simplie bribe persia and arabia to make peace with mongolia they mostly dont want to do this so lets do it the other way..

Bribe persia to go to war against someone else maybe arabia.. And do the same with arabia..

Bribe other civilizations on that continent to declare war on persia and arabia and watch the fun ..

Mongolia will have a less hard time dealing with those punks