Nuclear capability

[Machi]

Why the $##% does every Civ automatically gain nuclear capabilities at the same time as the first Civ that researched it ?!



This is soooo illogical that I simply can not even imagine a reason why the programers included it.

Why?



I guess my problem is that I try to understand things

 

[andyo]

many threads on it - the best answer apears to be to keep the game playing field semi-even

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

so you don't go all over the place....

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

They may all get the capability with completion of the wonder (or more accurately, I get it, since I never waste my own shields on it), but that doesn't mean they have the techs or resources to do anything with it.

 

[LittleDragon]

A better solution would have been a small wonder I guess. It does seem that after the rush in WW2 to get the first nukes out it has been much easier for other nations to develop the technology however.

 

[cgannon64]

Whether Manhattan project should be a small or Great wonder has been argued about a thousand times, and I think it should be...either.

I think by making it a Great Wonder, Firaxis was thinking along the lines that Russia, Germany (I think, History buffs may correct me on that) and the US were all developing the nuke at the same time.

However, I believe (once again, don't kill me if I'm wrong) that Communist Russia had a spy somewhere in the Manhattan Project, and was stealing secrets and plans all the time---giving an answer to why Stalin was not surprised when he was told about the A-Bomb being dropped on Hiroshima.

Overall, it seems in history that the nuke was developed by several countries independantly, but each was using espionage to try to keep up with each other.

I definetely think that nukes are slightly flawed in this game---I think they should kill the units they hit, not just redline them. I have no complaints about the rest of the nuke's effects in the game, but this one really bugs me sometimes.

Another Long-Winded Post

 

[DarwinMayflower]

From a chat on another civ site:

[ChaotikVisions] Are there any plans to change the Manhattan Project to a small wonder that enables nukes only for building civilization? Or maybe that the Manhattan Project allows other nations to build a cheap small wonder that allows nukes? Its kinda annoying to give everyone else nukes when you build it, even Russia and other countrys had to develop nukes some their own first.
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] we've been toying with ideas for that for months. We haven't come up with anything concrete yet.

So it looks like Firaxis realizes that it isn't perfect.

I understand what they were going for. I think they wanted a "letting the genie out of the bottle" effect for nuclear weapons. The problem is, there doesn't seem to be any question that someone will let the genie out of the bottle, even if the player decides not to build nukes.

Has anybody played a game where the AI civilizations have all avoided building the Manhattan Project? Or do they treat it just like any other wonder?

 

[Zouave]

There wouldn't be a problem if Firaxis had been slightly logical with the use of nukes. Instead, we have people nuking all over the place and at least one guy TERRAFORMING with them.


There should be SEVERE consequences for use of nukes, especially first use - political and other consequences. Much more unhappiness. Radiation pollution instead of much less dangerous regular pollution.

But Firaxis wanted all the folks who love those big explosions to enjoy themselves. So go ahead, enjoy yourselves. And don't look for sense or logical.


BTW, the Soviets did not steal the secrets to the Atomic-Bomb, at least not the main ones. They would have developed it on their own soon enough.

 

[Furry Spatula]

Hmmm i've been reading some text books to do a term paper, and well i thought that there were some Soviet spies in the Manhattan Project. But the reason why everyone gets nukes once you build the project is because it has to be balanced, so not just one person can use the bomb to waste everyone.

Zouave, are you polish. or rather is that the Polish eagle in you Avatar?

 

[Fonzerelli]

Well if other civilizations gain knowledge after ya build the wonder it takes the sting out of your discovery.
Remember in Civ2 other civ's would treat you with respect and welcome you to the "Nuclear Club"
Firaxis could have given the civilization who builds the wonder a faster nuclear missile building rate and left the rest to discoveries.

 

[Juize]

Hmmm i've been reading some text books to do a term paper, and well i thought that there were some Soviet spies in the Manhattan Project. But the reason why everyone gets nukes once you build the project is because it has to be balanced, so not just one person can use the bomb to waste everyone.

Zouave, are you polish. or rather is that the Polish eagle in you Avatar?

Btw, I've made a new avatar to Zouave, AFAIK, it should work better than
the current one.

 

[Venger]

The Soviets ABSOLUTELY stole secrets from American nuclear programs, advancing their work far, far earlier than they would normally have found possible, especially fusion weaponry. Venona clearly indicates the extent of Soviet espionage activities.

Yet more to the point, when the Americans built atomic weapons, not every Civ found it able to do so, and even today, ICBM technology is problematic. Best to have the unit only available after a great deal of techincal effort is spent, not simply because someone else has spent said effort...

Venger

 

[joycem10]

the AI can consuct espoinage for the requisite tech if it wants. then it can build its own version of the manhatten project.

i like the idea of a cheaper small wonder requirement for other civs after the manhatten project is built. call it a plutonium production facility or advanced weapons lab or lawrence livermore lads or whatever, just make sure that other civs have to make some kind of investment before they can make nukes.

 

[Furry Spatula]

When a city is nuked, does it loose all the production it has made so far? Ie if it is half done a wonder and you nuke it, is all the progress on the wonder lost? Because if it is there is a balance problem. One guy gets the nukes and then sends them out to every enemy civ's city that is making the manhattan project. I think its good how they handled it. After all the manhattan project tested the bomb, after it was proved to work you could just use the reports that it had. But anywho.