Nuclear weapons and a winning war strategy

[jollyolly]

Some thoughts on the use of nuclear weapons in the battlefield

First off, I would like to say that I’m not one for the massive use of ICBM’s in the modern era with an equally well equipped opponent. MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) indeed! Without a well thought out plan behind it such an attack is suicide. This is precisely why I would like to discuss with other civ players the use of nukes as part of a modern war winning strategy, using these powerful weapons in conjunction with conventional forces.

My first experience of nuclear weapons whilst playing civ 3 was during one of my early games when I decided that the adjacent civ (Russia, if I remember rightly) needed tearing down. (I was a bit of a warmonger back then).

I hurled twenty or so ICBM’s at the largest Russian cities and, having got the first strike in, expected no serious retaliatory strike. Next turn, all hell broke loose. If I remember rightly all of my cities were hit (no SDI) and in the bargain most other civs on the planet declared war!

So, apart from proving that I was a bit rubbish at civ back then, what did this teach me?

Don’t use nukes! I was scared rigid of these city killers for months after that, and built tactical nukes and ICBM’s but never used them.

But surely there must be a way of using nuclear weapons as part of an overall game strategy?

Well, regardless on whether or not you intend embarking on nuclear war, build SDI. Discover the tec advancements needed and be sure to have plenty of SAM sites built ready. But what if you and an opponent don’t have SDI…

The following is a suggested nuclear war strategy

You and your opponent share a long border on the same continent. You are both advanced civs with nukes and modern armour. First, ensure you have a sizeable number of modern armour units ready to follow up the nuclear blitz. Build workers too. Lots of workers. Station your tactical nukes within striking distance of his border cities. This strategy hinges on taking the initiative and conducting your attack with speed. First launch tactical nukes at his border cities. Strike in a place so that railroads entering the cities and those leaving are intact, but that the city is caught in the blast. For example;

RR RR RR

RR CITY RR

RR RR RR

Strike the bottom left square

RR RR RR

** ** RR

** ** RR

As you can see, the infrastructure will remain so that once you have taken the target city, you can benefit from the free movement of RR’s.

But I’m getting ahead of myself. You’ll need to take these border cities. Well, proceed as you normally would. Note: Although enemy units inside the city will be badly damaged, you may need to follow up the nuclear strike with bombers. Anyway, send in those tanks and ‘liberate’ the city. Don’t raze it! Remember we want the use of those lovely Rail Road squares.

Once his border cities have been taken, repeat the process, all the time remembering we need some Rail Road squares intact. You’ll be able to move those tactical nukes up into range and then WHAMMO!

You should use this method until you have gotten as far into his territory as possible. Now follow this up with a massive ICBM launch. Just imagine that the opponent civ leader insulted your mother. Take out his cities and access to resources. Hold a few back, but let most of your stockpile obliterate your enemy.

Now, remember those workers? Well, you’ll need to get them into your newly acquired territories to clean up the mess. Send half of them to your conquered territory. You’ll want use of the captured land so begin this long process as soon as possible.

By now you should have taken many cities, and your opponent should be in ruins. You should also pray that he had his nukes stored in his border cities that you’ve hopefully just taken. Coz guess what will happen now? yep, he’ll throw everything he’s got at you, which you hope will now not be that much.

Anyway, on your next turn clean up the mess of the nuclear exchange with the workers you left behind and press forward if he has no nukes left or is on the brink of collapse. Alternatively, you can recognise that if he launches anymore ICBMS you’ll be toast, and sue for peace. If he rejects, proceed with the war.

The key to this strategy is speed. Take those cities before he can launch the nukes stationed there. Also be aware that other civs may decide to join the fray if you started the war.

If you both have SDI then this will mean that you’ll need many more nukes. SDI means that an incoming nuke has a 75% chance of being intercepted. This could be to your advantage if you have many more nukes that your opponent, because while you’ll be able to play the numbers game, throwing so many nukes at him that some will have to get through, he may not get even one of your cities nuked.

Well, there you have it. If you think that that was a total load of old b******s then let me know.

If anyone else has any thoughts on nuclear war strategies that are winnable and not necessarily suicidal, I’d love to find out.

 

[apparition]

I've had one nuke war which was quite successful.

Instead of taking the border cities I destroyed them and took the workers. Lots and lots of workers. I used them to repair the gaps in the rail system.

I used ICBMs to nuke his capitol and his largest cities. After nuking a city you can take it with one modern armour as long as it's still the same turn.

In my game I had reloaded because I accedentally won by spaceship. So I had few cares and nuked every civs capitol.

I guess to most important thing for me was destroying the border cities to get lots of workers which meant that my pre war production was concentrated on military units.

 

[IluDeR]

In Civ2 if u lanch an nuke to an city, all the units would be dead. So it was much easy to conquer territory. In Civ3, all my games had nuke party!! Te first thing to do, is to fill up nuclear subs with tactical nukes an place them arround the globe. then build up, an fleet of batleships and carriers, and some transports. I build some ICBMS, just for long nukes,and for help in the conquest. I like placing my tanks and troops, like D day.

Other option is to cuild an arsenal of ICBMS, and when it's time, nuke my neigbhour.
This is my strategie all the time.

Something is missing in Civilization3, that, in diplomicy, you to know that the other have nukes, the AI using this fact to get sutff, and you be able to make contracts or oppress other civs, to stop building nukes.

 

[jollyolly]

I never bother with tactical nukes in subs.

Historically they enabled a nation to launch nuclear weapons at an enemy who struck first, thus preserving the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction. A nuclear first strike would have disabled an enemies ability to launch his land based ICBM's.

In civ3, a nuclear attack leaves an enemy nuclear stock pile intact, so I feel that nukes in subs are tactically and strategically irrelevant if you have an ICBM stockpile with which to strike.

 

[Hunter]

Well generally I like to use them in three ways:

The Nuke Umbrella (my favorite all though $costly$) - A tactic used for invations of other continents, this consists of two or three nuke-subs off the coast of my enemy. Each sub launches its tactical nukes to form an arc of destruction from one coast to anouther. Inside that arc is one or two coastal citys that I invade with mariens supported by an over whelming costal and air bombardment. I land my defensive units in the cities and the polution and lack of roads prevents the enemy from easily attacking me with tanks/modern armor. This polution shield gives me time to establish a strong beach head. Usualy I also if possible launch doomed destraction invation as far away from the real invasion as possible to draw away the enemies forces.
IN this tactic I like to use cuise missiles to protect my new cities from any would be army. This works quite well since they will usaly just get clear of the polution and have no more movement left then BAM!! You can also use carriers and battleships this way as well.

Bottle necking - this is based on the plans created by NATO in real life. Get the enemy to attack you at a city or other stratigic location, where once a large force is engaged hit them with an ICBM. You have two choices here hit them dead on, losing some of your troops or hit the ground one square behind them. The second option protects your troops but may allow more of the enemy to live. After the ICBM hit the survivors with tanks before they can retreat. Pull back and do it again. This plan works best if they out number you.

Fleet elimination - I have only done this two or three times but all you need to to is do the same as bottle necking with ships. you can also do it with subs but you have less chance there fleet being all in one spot. I do this if I NEED control of the ocean but lack the ships to do it.

I also in conection with these tactics like to hit the three bigest enemy cities or most important reasorces just to cripple them.
Edit: I dont need to but say it but dropping a nuke on an important reasource, especialy if they only have one of that kind, is the FIRST thing I do. It will take them the length of the war to reclaim the land and gain access to it again. A nation without reasources is a doomed one.

 

[Phoenix]

I would just like to add that I am quite sure that tactical nukes cannot be intercepted by SDI (they don't go into space after all). ICBMs should be detroyed by a first strike but unfortunetly they arn't . Maybe this is something that Firaxis will fix for Conquests.

 

[Sarevok]

this is why i make a ton of tacs and put them in my some 100+ nuke subs throughout the map

 

[Aramis]

agreed nukes never work..i used them in my last game though as an act of desperation since two AI were about to get space age before me. I had been building ICBMs since i was using circle placement and had 5 moto infantry in every base, and some modern armor armies and carriers full of stealth aircraft.
launched 13 nukes on the russians and 17 on the persians... no more building space ship for them. two other people were gracious towards me so they did not attack. they were raping my land big time and even captured a city which held one ss part, so i ICBMed that city and some more cities elsewhere and pulled out spaceship first.

 

[cameramano]

question: Really, are tactical nukes effected by SDI?

 

[jollyolly]

Aren't all nukes interceptable by SDI?

Aramis: I agree, usually using nukes will only bring you a world of hurt, but at certain points in the game if used intelligently they can be horribly effective.

Anyone else got any nuclear strategies they'd care to share?

 

[Aramis]

what does a nuke actually do? seems that it just utterly rapes a town, but all i certainly know is that it kills like half the population and destroys everything in the nearby squares and pollutes them.

does it destroy current production, existing improvements, or anything else?

 

[StealthRanger]

I have gone threw the same thing you have of when your nuclear strike makes a complete world war. It is hard to aviod this especially if u send more than one nuke because the other nations most of the time greatly disagree with it and will try to eliminate you. This will even happen even if u have close allies they at one point will turn to try to kill you. It is extremely ilogical to use your nukes when you only have a single primary target, but if it is already total world war its not going to change your position of how it is already. The only other time it is neccisary is when your back is pushed to the wall and defeat is inevidable it would be a good idea to use them.