OFFICIAL DISCUSSION: Game-Save (playing the save, turnchats)

[Chieftess]

This is the discussion to determine rules regarding the game save. This primarly includes the turnchat, and turnchat instruction threads. This also will determine how turnchat play progresses.

 

[GenMarshall]

One thing comes to mind and has been the cardinal rule of the demogame saves.

Thou shall not play the save unless you are the DP and have set a time slot to play it

 

[Black_Hole]

I believe we should let the DP choose between an offline TC and an online TC. You just vote for the candidate/s you believe will follow your prefferred method. Also many DPs will try both...
There is also strong support for the alternate governement which has multiple DPs not directly linked to the president, which is a great idea

 

[Chieftess]

This is what I propose: (but not limited to)

1 - The DP reads instructions from the TCIT (Turnchat Instruction Thread), and posts them in the chatroom (closed or otherwise... either way, we'd need a log of the DPs actions in case the judiciary needs them).

2 - The DP is the only one that can perform non-reversable actions. However, if needed, (DP isn't going to be available), they can pass the save to the next in CoC (Chain of Command).

3 - Turnchats must adhere to a 10 turn limit, but may extend up to 3 turns to allow for completion of a wonder, or to get out of anarchy. The exception is that the first full turnchat (not the creation chat) may be extended by up to 10 turns.

4 - All instructions must be written by the start of the turnchat to be binding. However, advisors may edit instructions (i.e., an instruction was posted 2 hours before the turnchat, but a poll went the other way just before the turnchat started) as long as they notify the DP.

5 - All instructions must be backed by polls. If an instruction can not be backed by a poll, then it must be backed by discussion. If there is no discussion and no poll, then the instruction is not considered binding, as it is not of the will of the people.

6 - The DP will post the preturn, turn 5, turn 10, and ending save (usually turn 10) in the turnchat thread.

 

[Strider]

CT... make number 6 "The DP will post the pre-turn, ending save, and a save every 5 turns, or the like. While I doubt we will be playing anymore that 15 turns.. we just might in the ancient ages.

 

[GenMarshall]

That is usualy the tradition is that we play a max of 10 turns for each turnchat.

 

[DaveShack]

Proposal:

Elect 3 people to be the DP's each term. This can be in addition to any other office they may hold, and they can decide among themselves how to divide up playing time.

 

[DaveShack]

This is what I propose: (but not limited to)

1 - The DP reads instructions from the TCIT (Turnchat Instruction Thread), and posts them in the chatroom (closed or otherwise... either way, we'd need a log of the DPs actions in case the judiciary needs them).

No, it's hard enough to just follow the instructions. Having to echo them is needless, wasteful busy work.

2 - The DP is the only one that can perform non-reversable actions. However, if needed, (DP isn't going to be available), they can pass the save to the next in CoC (Chain of Command).

Yes this works, but see my alternative approach to how DPs are selected.

3 - Turnchats must adhere to a 10 turn limit, but may extend up to 3 turns to allow for completion of a wonder, or to get out of anarchy. The exception is that the first full turnchat (not the creation chat) may be extended by up to 10 turns.

Turnchats may extend beyond 10 turns as long as there are instructions available from all departments covering the time played. Play must stop immediately when conditions change such that the environment in which the instructions were written is no longer valid. Examples of this are peace vs war, meeting new civs, another civ learns a tech for which we can trade, another civ has a resource for which we can trade, etc. Instructions may say to continue play if conditions change. Instructions may set a stop condition in which case play must stop immediately upon meeting the condition.

4 - All instructions must be written by the start of the turnchat to be binding. However, advisors may edit instructions (i.e., an instruction was posted 2 hours before the turnchat, but a poll went the other way just before the turnchat started) as long as they notify the DP.

I would like to see advisors be able to post instructions late, with the understanding that events which have already occurred prior to the instruction being posted are not affected by the instruction.

5 - All instructions must be backed by polls. If an instruction can not be backed by a poll, then it must be backed by discussion. If there is no discussion and no poll, then the instruction is not considered binding, as it is not of the will of the people.

No, the people elected the official to lead. They should be allowed to lead. Take this example, suppose the culture minister opens a thread about starting the pyramids and nobody comments, for or against, for 2 days. Then the governor puts in an instruction to start building them. Just because nobody comments on an item does not mean they have not, by their silence, made their will known.

6 - The DP will post the preturn, turn 5, turn 10, and ending save (usually turn 10) in the turnchat thread.

I'm fine with this, but it does not go far enough. The DP will post a detailed step by step account of what happens, at the level of detail commonly used in a Succession Game report, or in a Quick Start Challenge timeline (terms spelled out for the noobs).

 

[GenMarshall]

Proposal:

Elect 3 people to be the DP's each term. This can be in addition to any other office they may hold, and they can decide among themselves how to divide up playing time.

I Perfer having the president (and people along the CoC when the president is unadvalible at that time) to be the DP.

 

[DaveShack]

I Perfer having the president (and people along the CoC when the president is unadvalible at that time) to be the DP.

Then nominate those people in the DP elections and vote for them.

I want Cyc as President and someone else as DP (Cyc doesn't have C3C) -- that is if my work schedule stays as hellish as it is now. If my work schedule is not hellish, then I'll take a shot at T1 President again.

 

[Octavian X]

I'll add another little proposal into the mix - a REQUIRED, detailed turn-by-turn log of EVERYTHING that goes in during the turn chat/play session/doughnut-eating party/other turn-playing time - and chat logs don't count, because they make absolutely terrible accounts of events for those of us unable to pay attention during the chat, as well as for those of us unable to spend five hours sifting through a log for detailed information.

And, when I say everything, I do mean everything. Troops and workers in C3C can be named, and a simple naming convention (say, a number assigned to each unit upon creation) can be used to track unit orders. Worker orders and city builds/micromanagment, too, should be recorded.

The DP bears the burden, yes, but it increases the accountability on that position, provides for an easy-access explanation of recent events to leaders and newbies alike, and serves as good information for those not eqiupped with C3C. And, should the position of President in it's traditional form continue to exist (not necessarily a move I support, mind you), it makes him actually do something for a change.

 

[Chieftess]

Right - naming units should be a fun aspect of C3C.

And the naming convention should be as such:

[Province Name - abbreviated if need be][Provincial City-code][Name of Unit]

i.e., To use Zarnia as an example and Zojoji: Zarnia-Zoj-Spearman. (That way, we know it comes from Zarnia, and Zojoji).

 

[mhcarver]

This is what I propose: (but not limited to)

1 - The DP reads instructions from the TCIT (Turnchat Instruction Thread), and posts them in the chatroom (closed or otherwise... either way, we'd need a log of the DPs actions in case the judiciary needs them).

I have no problem with this, it works, as long as it is mandatory of the president

2 - The DP is the only one that can perform non-reversable actions. However, if needed, (DP isn't going to be available), they can pass the save to the next in CoC (Chain of Command).

Yes, though I think we should pass a COC in the constitution or code of laws

3 - Turnchats must adhere to a 10 turn limit, but may extend up to 3 turns to allow for completion of a wonder, or to get out of anarchy. The exception is that the first full turnchat (not the creation chat) may be extended by up to 10 turns.

no objections here

4 - All instructions must be written by the start of the turnchat to be binding. However, advisors may edit instructions (i.e., an instruction was posted 2 hours before the turnchat, but a poll went the other way just before the turnchat started) as long as they notify the DP.

Ok , I guess

5 - All instructions must be backed by polls. If an instruction can not be backed by a poll, then it must be backed by discussion. If there is no discussion and no poll, then the instruction is not considered binding, as it is not of the will of the people

Like DS I must disagree with this one, we elected them to lead they may post polls to find the WOTP but if they don't then someone who cares can, and yes I know I had a different position on this earlier but hey flip flopping is legal,,,Right?

6 - The DP will post the preturn, turn 5, turn 10, and ending save (usually turn 10) in the turnchat thread.

Again no arguments here

 

[Black_Hole]

I definetly agree with DS that we should have 3 DP positinos that are not binded to other positions... Also CT that basically ends the idea of leaders being leaders....

 

[blackheart]

I don't think we should have tight instructions for naming. What if I were to create the Fanatikku Honor Guard? Military units don't need province AND city names in their title, their name need only to indicate their role. Like 7th Cavalry, 1st Legion, Sto'vo'kor Defense Legion, etc. A note about naming is that units upgrade, therefor if we don't to rename units everytime they upgrade, keep the names generalized.

 

[ravensfire]

I'll go a slightly different route - allow just about anyone the chance to be DP.

Each election cycle, there will be a thread for anyone to post that they'd like to be a DP, along with why, their qualifications, etc. As part of the election, we post a multiple choice poll with everyone's name on it. So long as they get a certain number of votes (say, 50% of quorum), they get on the list.

One of the Moderators then randomly sorts the list, putting anyone that has been a DP for the past two terms at the bottom, and we have a list of DP's for the term. Each DP schedules their own turn chat, 3-5 days from the previous turn chat.

It opens the DP role up to more people, and spreads the "joy" of being the DP around.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Cyc]

One thing comes to mind and has been the cardinal rule of the demogame saves.

Thou shall not play the save unless you are the DP and have set a time slot to play it

I definitely agree ith this, CG. Although it would need to be reworded and used in separate rules.

There is also strong support for the alternate governement which has multiple DPs not directly linked to the president, which is a great idea

I disagreed with this approach of the DP not being an elected official, so the proposal was changed to make the DP postion a separate elected position. I guess that works, so I won't fight that anymore..

1 - The DP reads instructions from the TCIT (Turnchat Instruction Thread), and posts them in the chatroom (closed or otherwise... either way, we'd need a log of the DPs actions in case the judiciary needs them).

2 - The DP is the only one that can perform non-reversable actions. However, if needed, (DP isn't going to be available), they can pass the save to the next in CoC (Chain of Command).

3 - Turnchats must adhere to a 10 turn limit, but may extend up to 3 turns to allow for completion of a wonder, or to get out of anarchy. The exception is that the first full turnchat (not the creation chat) may be extended by up to 10 turns.

4 - All instructions must be written by the start of the turnchat to be binding. However, advisors may edit instructions (i.e., an instruction was posted 2 hours before the turnchat, but a poll went the other way just before the turnchat started) as long as they notify the DP.

5 - All instructions must be backed by polls. If an instruction can not be backed by a poll, then it must be backed by discussion. If there is no discussion and no poll, then the instruction is not considered binding, as it is not of the will of the people.

6 - The DP will post the preturn, turn 5, turn 10, and ending save (usually turn 10) in the turnchat thread.

1. Please yes. Document everything. DS this is not a waste of time, this is recording History.

2. No problem with this, it even works with the alternative plan.

3. Ten turns with a 3 turn extention for justifiable reasons, yes. Extending the opening of the game (during any TC) beyond the three turn allowance? NO. The games opening is a very important part of the Demogame as it allows the people to participate in the opening decisions. Running enlongated TCs because the elite don't want to get bored is not the way it should be done.

4. No, we have already solved the many problems this causes with the ruling for it in DG5. Allowing changes is unfair to other Leaders who have based their Instructions on the indecisive or poll watching Leader's Instruction.

5. I disagree. A poll and/or discussion DOES show the will of the people and Leaders need to follow this. But if no contributions were made (see the Culture Discussion I started at the end of the game, then the Leaders Instruction should be valid and binding.

6. Like Strider said, every 5 turns.

I want Cyc as President and someone else as DP (Cyc doesn't have C3C) --

Cyc as President??!! Who would vote for a bozo like that? Get real.

I'll add another little proposal into the mix - a REQUIRED, detailed turn-by-turn log of EVERYTHING that goes in during the turn chat/play session/doughnut-eating party/other turn-playing time - and chat logs don't count, because they make absolutely terrible accounts of events for those of us unable to pay attention during the chat, as well as for those of us unable to spend five hours sifting through a log for detailed information.

And, when I say everything, I do mean everything. Troops and workers in C3C can be named, and a simple naming convention (say, a number assigned to each unit upon creation) can be used to track unit orders. Worker orders and city builds/micromanagment, too, should be recorded.

The DP bears the burden, yes, but it increases the accountability on that position, provides for an easy-access explanation of recent events to leaders and newbies alike, and serves as good information for those not eqiupped with C3C. And, should the position of President in it's traditional form continue to exist (not necessarily a move I support, mind you), it makes him actually do something for a change.

Yes, definitely. And the turn summaries need to be of the same quality donsig used to put into his. They need facts (and color if possible) related to all aspects of the current situation, not just a robotic one line blurb (unless that's totally appropriate).

Right - naming units should be a fun aspect of C3C.

And the naming convention should be as such:

[Province Name - abbreviated if need be][Provincial City-code][Name of Unit]

I like this a lot.

 

[Provolution]

I suggest it the other way, unit name first, in honor of the citizen, then city and then province in zip code format, for example : Kamikaze, ZO-ZA1

 

[Furiey]

For naming of Units I tend to use the form:

Unit-type Firstname Surname​

having unit type first allows the unit type to be more easily seen when trying to sort our units in a large stack

for first name I use any name I want - citizens could choose these

for Surname I use the city the unit was produced from - we know what province the cities are in - I don't think we need to make the name even longer by adding that as well.

this would give something like (supposeing I decided to call the unit Furiey):

Worker Furiey Fanattiku​

I'm not sure what the maximum number of characters is though - we may have to limit name length.

 

[Provolution]

what about Unit-Type 10 char citizen name, 2-letter city code and 2 letter area code and unit number ?