Official SCIENCE thread!

[MWA]

Post your best tips/hints/strategies for getting maximum science here!


I'll start off, though mine are pretty basic:



1. Build libraries and science labs.
2. Buy/trade all technology you can.
3. Keep the science rate contantly at least above 60%.
4. Build as many scientific wonders you can.




Sad that you can't steal technology when capturing cities, that was always a good way to combine warmongering with scientific development...

 

[Shabbaman]

Build Copernicus' observatory, Newton's university and SETI program in the same city: simple math, this way you'll get the highest science boost.

 

[shdwlord]

Build the Great Library, and contact as many civs as you can.

Don't 0 out your science when you get the great library, instead research the monorchy and mil tradition tech lines. The AI usually avoids these, prefering the top research branches. When they get education, you will get it, be able to build universities as soon as they can, and usually have a 1 to 2 tech head start in the military branch.

Build harbors, market places, banks, and airports as soon as you can. Extra commerce means more to spend on research.

The Pyramids and Sun Tzu's on large land masses means no upkeep cost for barracks and grainaries, freeing up money that would otherwise be spent on upkeep of these buildings. Same with Smith's Trading Company.

Courthouses cut corruption, which eats away at your commerce.

Terrain is very important when it comes to commerce. Every square that has a road in it gets commerce. Squares next to rivers get commerce. Gold, gems, fish, ect. give commerce, which all increase the ammount you can put into research.

If a city is stuck at size 5, there is no need to build and pay for an aquaduct. Avoid paying maintainance cost on buildings that you do not need.

A strategically placed forbidden palace can give a huge boost to your commerce, hence your science.

Per turn deals are your best friend. Always look to see if the civ that you are trading with has gold in their treasury, if they do, renegotiate your lux deals to them. The extra gold can allow you to raise your science spending even more.

The first time that you are able to trade your world map with everyone you have contact with, you should instantly get every tech they have. The AI loves maps that they don't have. You might not get them all in 1 deal, but trading it with a few different civs will get you everything that they know.

Always make sure that you are prebuilding for the Theory of Evolution, 2 free techs for whoever builds it.

Build the science wonders in the city with the highest commerce, it will get the most benefit from them.

 

[Arrian]

In order to maximize science, you have to maximize trade, build the right wonders (in the right places) and make good trades (the tech devaluation in 1.17 works both ways - once a tech has been around for a while, you can pick it up for next to nothing).

I go for the Great Library, and my strategy revolves around getting it. There are other ways to go about it, but this is the one I like (Monarch level):

I beeline for literature, while using the Pyramids as a shield holder in my best city (probably my capitol). If I'm not industrious, I buy masonry. Anyway, I expand as rapidly as possible, building temples in my new cities, with only a minimal military. As soon as I get literature, I build libraries in my core cities (and start them in the far away ones, in order to save shields for the courthouses to come). After discovering literature, I beeline for currency. The Great Library will be finished before I discover it, and the GL will get me everything BUT construction, currency, republic and monarchy. I will switch my outlying cities to courthouses (unless, of course, they are so far out that they're not worth it).

If I am blessed with a coastal city with low corruption, I'll take a shot at the Colossus. It is a wonder that the AI often neglects, and it doesn't take too many shields to build. Having a decent coastal city early on is a matter of luck, however.

Anyway, upon getting currency, I build marketplaces everywhere. The more overall money you have, the more you can afford to spend on science. I will also gain construction and monarchy from the GL, while I research republic. Large cities build colloseums, and my capitol starts on the Hanging Gardens while my best production city (other than the cap) starts on a "palace." After getting republic, I switch gov'ts and start researching feudalism. The capitol switches from Hanging G. to Sun Tzu... then I beeline for Theology and the #2 city gets switched to either Sun Tzu or the Sistine, depending on which city will complete its wonder first (I want the Sistine done first - it's more important to me). Meanwhile, other cities are building cathedrals and aqueducts and such things. I now normally go for Engineering, and if the AI isn't breathing down my neck, Invention too, before going for Education. If I can get Leo's, fine, otherwise, no biggie. Shields will be saved, however, for Copernicus. I often discover Education myself, rather than getting it from the Library. I want the get those universities built, and I want to get to Astronomy quickly, for Copernicus. After Astronomy, it's Banking and Economics - Adam Smith's is ESSENTIAL. Banks are built just about everywhere (there are exceptions to every rule, but I pretty much build 'em in any city that can do it in under 25 turns), and Wall Street is built asap. If I feel that I have the time (and a spare city to build Bach's), I will research Music Theory. Then over to Theory of Gravity (often the AI will go up the other tech line, getting gunpowder ahead of me, and I will buy that from them). If I can get Copernicus/Newton in one city, I obviously try to.

If all of the above goes according to plan, I will be well situated to grab a good tech lead in the Industrial Age (basically, I get my railroads and factories online, go for ToE, which gets me to Electronics, build Hoover, and then backfill).

It tends to work well, but it requires that several things go right. An early AI attack will wreak havoc on this strategy. Also, you need contact with several civs (2 at the very least) for the GL to work properly. Hopefully, your peaceful expansion will get you some luxuries. At the very least 2 - and if that's the case, you'd better have a lot of those 2 so you can trade - preferably 3. More than 3 local luxuries is excellent. I normally do my fighting in the medieval and industrial periods. A Middle Ages golden age is great for building all those wonders and expensive improvements, not to mention finally building something resembling an army.

I find that the civs that fit best with this strategy are the Babylonians and Egyptians. I wouldn't use this with the Chinese or Zulu, for example, because it doesn't play to their strengths.

Anyway, this is one way to go about it.

-Arrian

 

[BillChin]

It starts at the very beginning. Take one turn to three turns finding the best tile for the capital. Bulding on a luxury icon or next to a river doubles the starting gold. Building on a gold or gem icon gives five gold per turn! Other tips are to build roads early and build the first cities very close to the capital.

With 1.17 on Regent and above, it is difficult to maintain a science lead. Staying two or three advances behind is often more efficient. If a player is behind on tech, a good way to catch up is to wage war and demand techs when they want to talk peace.

The Great Library is another early option, but takes a lot of planning to get on higher difficulty levels.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by BillChin
It starts at the very beginning. Take one turn to three turns finding the best tile for the capital. Bulding on a luxury icon or next to a river doubles the starting gold. Building on a gold or gem icon gives five gold per turn! Other tips are to build roads early and build the first cities very close to the capital.

This can be very effective. I rarely build my capital on the tile where my settler starts. If I can see coast, I build my capital on the coast so I can build the colossus there.

 

[Shaitan]

When the Civilopedia says that an improvement works with another improvement it really means that they work congruently. All improvements that increase an amount (money, science or production) work on the base amount produced by the city. Say you’ve got two improvements in a city, both increase science by 100% and the city normally produces 100 beakers. From the Civilopedia descriptions you would think that the yield would be 400 beakers: 100 base times 2 for the first improvement equals 200. 200 times 2 for the second improvement equals 400. What you actually get is 300: 100 base + 100 for the first improvement equals 200. Plus 100 for the second improvement = 300.

 

[Ouchgeddon]

I love the Great Library too. Recently I played France and opted for GL over Pyramids. This netted me, like you said Arrian, every tech except the 4 you mentioned.

As France, my goal was to be the World Stock Exchange. With Commercial and Industrious traits I managed to build up my landscaping and treasury quite fast. This cash I used to rush Library, Temple, University, Cathedral, Colloseum in that order in every outlying town. Sooner or later the computer's border towns turned to my side: More cash for me! But one prob: My science rate was the dumps up until Industrial Ages! Only then could I reach 4 turns a tech, even with a Lib and Uni in something like 20 cities (Monarch).

At the start I was behind in tech till GL, Medieval I was just a little ahead and from Education on I could have zoomed to the finish. But I instead sold out to the other civs (weaker ones esp.) so I could get MORE CASH!!! But I still wonder if I could have been nuking long before they even got Nationalism.

 

[jimmytrick]

Research nothing. Build no science improvements. Buy it all. Use the 90% or greater cash savings to rush buy other infrastructure.

Wage war for leaders to use to build wonders. Not science wonders.

This is the optimal strat under the current patch.

 

[Shabbaman]

Really?!?

Hmmm. Get's me thinking anyhow.

What's your score with that?

 

[Shabbaman]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Research nothing.

Nice tip on getting max science by the way.

 

[Dutchman]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Research nothing. Build no science improvements. Buy it all. Use the 90% or greater cash savings to rush buy other infrastructure.

Wage war for leaders to use to build wonders. Not science wonders.

This is the optimal strat under the current patch.

You are so right!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shdwlord]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Research nothing. Build no science improvements. Buy it all. Use the 90% or greater cash savings to rush buy other infrastructure.

Wage war for leaders to use to build wonders. Not science wonders.

This is the optimal strat under the current patch.

No, this is the optimal strategy for your playing style, it is far from the only one. I can achieve the same levels of tech as you do by researching mapmaking, with better infrastructure. Where you have spent all your early shields on units only, I have market places, temples, and libraries. Not having science buildings will cost you alot of cities culturally later on in the game. Your cultural level aslo effects how much the AI civs will give you on deals. The higher it is, the more that you get.

 

[LaRo]

Originally posted by shdwlord


No, this is the optimal strategy for your playing style, it is far from the only one. I can achieve the same levels of tech as you do by researching mapmaking, with better infrastructure. Where you have spent all your early shields on units only, I have market places, temples, and libraries. Not having science buildings will cost you alot of cities culturally later on in the game. Your cultural level aslo effects how much the AI civs will give you on deals. The higher it is, the more that you get.

Are you play with 1.17f and on highest level? Probably no because you would agree with Jimmy and Shabbaman.

Doing what you said would put on behing others civs in the tree tech and you may have weaker army so Ai would crush you.

If you are winning on highest and 1.17f with this strategy, please tell me more about it. We are always learning.

 

[Shabbaman]

Originally posted by shdwlord


Not having science buildings will cost you alot of cities culturally later on in the game.

That's not true I think. Think about the temples and cathedrals you can buy or build. Besides that, when you're waging a war your opponents won't invest heavily on culture either.

Still would like to know how far you can get with your strategy though.

 

[jimmytrick]

The idea of not researching in a Civ type game is so far off the wall that most people can't wrap their mind around it.

Of course this is how you test software for bugs. Do something opposite of the expected action and see how the program reacts.

I can guarantee no one tested this idea before v 1.17 went out the door.

I think it will take some major changes to get us back on track.

Still, you have to admit multiplayer would not have this problem unless it were a game with mixed human and AI players.

 

[Shabbaman]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
The idea of not researching in a Civ type game is so far off the wall that most people can't wrap their mind around it.

Think about it: why not? Maybe this way it makes even more sense: okay, maybe currency and ironworking has been invented independently in multiples, but what about fission and the printing press (nice historical debate in here...)?

Besides all this, remember you do get points for litteracy of your population...(or dont' you?0

 

[Radegast]

Current Game;
Emporor Level;
Greek Civ
Large World
Eight Civs
Random everthing, although it looks like a normal pangea (2 continents)

Currently researching Radio
No-one else has Steel
I've 20+ tanks
I've 10+ bombers
I've 15+ Artillery
I've 50+ Infantry
I've 10+ Cavalry
I've a very small navy
I've 20+ native workers
I've 50+ foriegn workers
Year ~1500

Therefore I have Steel, Combustion, Mass Production,Motorized Transportation and Flight over and above anyone else. I'll get radio in 3 turns (could be quicker but I've been eliminating an opponent for the land, resources luxuries and security and they won't talk turkey, so I need some (30%!) luxury to stave off WW). And all of these are the killer military techs, so I can destroy any opposition almost at will.


Once I get radio, because I'm Greek I'll get another freebie which will probably be rocketry, I could therefore be a possible 7 techs ahead, but at least six. And I'm not worried about them researching all techs inbetween, I traded Refining, Electronics, Atomic Theory, Sanitation, Medicine, Corporation and Scientific Method over the last 20-40 turns to them all thereby destroying accumulated research.

How did I do this?

Aggressive trading. 90% research. Selling maps. Witholding luxuries/resources. Taking all the AI cash when they get any. Staying peaceful. Contacting the other continent first. Building infrastructure. Expanding sensibly. Keeping military spending in control. Skipping Monarchy. Buying technology. Focused terrain development. Purchasing foriegn workers. Culturally capturing cities. Building foriegn workers. Building wonders. Leaders (all 1 of them, the other was FP) into wonders not armies.

And the biggest boost of all? Peaceful Golden age trigered by TOE in 1250.

Everything opposite to the zero science strategy. I'd like jimmytrick et al to explain to me how they become these 6-7 techs ahead with zero science.

Now I'll readily admit that the start position was a honey. Mid contential capital. Lots of flood plains surrounded by hills with some desert/mountains but not too much. Good plains, grassland, forest territory around this up to the coast. No resource shortage, reasonable luxury provision. ample foriegn workers for sale.

But this is my point. You must tailor your strategy to your location. This was a good REX/science start with a civ who's traits match the environment. So I'm kicking, the game is all over bar the shouting.

GOTMx was not this type of start, and if I'd tried it I'd have died. GOTMx was an (almost) zero science game for me, I still won a space victory with a lousy score (1350 in 1950). This time I'm already 1950 in 1500. But that game was only winnable because of a very late Golden Age.

So zero science is not the only way, it's one of many which has its place and time.

And if you want a save, I'll post one when I get home.

 

[LaRo]

Originally posted by Radegast
Everything opposite to the zero science strategy. I'd like jimmytrick et al to explain to me how they become these 6-7 techs ahead with zero science.

If you always buy your techs to the same civs (the techs leader), the others will finish by having no cash, if there is war, maybe the leader too.

It's time to take the lead. Darwin's voyage it a great boost.

Tip: Count the number of turn between Ai researching tech. If it's 6 and you can do 5. You're now the leader.

 

[Radegast]

But how do you get ahead by buying? And as for DV, you need the tech to build the wonder, and the AI is very reluctant to sell it (read charge the earth) if they are building a wonder. And it makes it problematical whether you'll win the race anyway cause you can't buy wonders.

But if it a tip you are looking for;

Darwins voyage will give you the tech you are currently working, plus one other.

So while building DV, research as normal. Try to get a tech finished 2-3 tiurns before you finish the wonder. Then zero science for a big cash influx. Set your research tech to Atomic Theory (or whatever your desired path is). Complete DV, get AT and one other. Reset tech spending, but you can now afford to run a deficit because of the 2-3 turn cash bonus.

Civ 2 players would know this, but in Civ3 1.17f you don't get the excess beakers carried over, or if you do with the 4 turn cap it don't matter. So this is a way to get an even bigger tech boost from DV.

[edit for typos]