On Harvest, Pacing and other things

[Graethyenne]

Hey Folks,

My Civ 6 has been dormant for a while...but, and I'm probably not the only one, with the announcement of GS I am getting a little excited and figure I might dust it off, get back up to speed and maybe actually get decent (Emperor is the ceiling for me, or was, not sure how well even that would go at the moment).

All the chatter about the Maori and whether their harvest penalty matters brings me round to something I never really strongly grasped 1) how important is chopping in single player at say Emperor and 2) if it is important, how to go about when to do it? I came across this thread https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...or-instant-boost-vs-long-term-benefit.638450/ but I'm so out of touch, I could use additional commentary I guess.

I also saw a guide video, talking about how to choose a city's first placement, butu the line that struck me was starting a Campus on or around turn thirty "around when you settle your third city". I don't know that I have ever settled two additional cities by turn 30...that seems crazy fast. I'd love context thoughts on this too, so that I can get back into the game sooner rather than later.

Thanks!

 

[clapyourhands]

Hey Folks,

My Civ 6 has been dormant for a while...but, and I'm probably not the only one, with the announcement of GS I am getting a little excited and figure I might dust it off, get back up to speed and maybe actually get decent (Emperor is the ceiling for me, or was, not sure how well even that would go at the moment).

All the chatter about the Maori and whether their harvest penalty matters brings me round to something I never really strongly grasped 1) how important is chopping in single player at say Emperor and 2) if it is important, how to go about when to do it? I came across this thread https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...or-instant-boost-vs-long-term-benefit.638450/ but I'm so out of touch, I could use additional commentary I guess.

I also saw a guide video, talking about how to choose a city's first placement, butu the line that struck me was starting a Campus on or around turn thirty "around when you settle your third city". I don't know that I have ever settled two additional cities by turn 30...that seems crazy fast. I'd love context thoughts on this too, so that I can get back into the game sooner rather than later.

Thanks!

I would say that harvesting is critical for an optimal, speed-focused playthrough. But I would also say that for the majority of players achieving victory in the minimum amount of turns isn't the primary goal (not that there's anything wrong with focusing on turn count), and it's not necessary at all to chop/harvest to win. I think for me personally I harvest only when speed is of the essence and I need something built ASAP--most commonly this is Wonders. But I find that I might also chop to line certain things up (ie: have a campus ready for a building-creating GP), build a unique unit/district/building to boost my era points just before an era switch, or just generally have something ready immediately rather than later.

 

[criZp]

I never harvest because I like to keep the visual variety on the map, and I can do fine enough on emperor if I wage some war now and then.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I used to harvest to beat the AI on Deity.

I've stopped harvesting, and it doesn't make much of a difference. You can still cruise to victory on Deity, winning 50 to 100 turns before the AI without harvesting or conquering.

The main thing in Civ 6 is there's lots of things to build and very few of them impact whether you win or not. If you're playing to develop a fun empire, that doesn't matter. Build what you want, when you want it.

If you're finding it difficult to win before the AI does, however, and want to be able to win quicker without going the warmonger route, here are 5 hints to peaceful Civ 6 victories:

1. Science and Culture are your most important yields. Food is your least important yield. Plan your cities around this.
2. The most valuable way to spend your production is on things that provide tech and civics boosts.
3. Projects are your friend. Unless you need to produce a new Trader, a Tier 1 or Tier 2 building that provides science or culture, or something that provides a tech or civics boost, there's a good chance that city should be running a project.
4. Build an army early to survive an AI Warrior rush: Warriors first, then Slingers, using the +50% Production bonus. Four of each should be enough to form the core of your defensive army for the game. Upgrade them over time. Other unit mixes will work, too, but I never take AI cities and the melee/ranged lines work fine for defensive purposes.
5. Gold and faith are very flexible currencies. Use them to buy things you need, when you need them, where you need them.

As you get better with building only the things that help you win, you'll likely find that harvesting is irrelevant to beating the AI at any difficulty level. It can, however, get you out of a jam when you need walls quick, for example, or an army quick, or you want to get a district up fast. Stone is your best resource to harvest, followed by trees that aren't along a river. If you need gold quick, copper and crabs can be harvested, too.

All of this may change with GS.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I do it at least some every game but not as much as players will say I "need" to. I do hope it gets the nerfhammer in this expansion though so we can stop hearing about it.

 

[Victoria]

I don't know that I have ever settled two additional cities by turn 30

So 8-10 cities by T100 is the main aim, you can get over 25 with violence. The aim is not to get 3 by T30, it can vary too much by game for such a measure.

If you really work hard at getting as much gold as possible early you can buy a settler or even 2. They are cheaper earlier and you are paying 4 production value so not as much direct value as upgrading.

Getting to early empire fast for the 50% discount really helps.
Staling an early settler or taking an early CS are opportunities also.

 

[Arent11]

Ceterum censeo that harvesting resources should be removed, & chopping forests should yield few production or a little gold.

 

[UWHabs]

I never harvest because I like to keep the visual variety on the map, and I can do fine enough on emperor if I wage some war now and then.

Yeah, I'll harvest stone or deer for the production boosts, but don't worry too much about the builder charges/turns on other resources. If my campus wipes out some sheep, I can live without the food in the city. I will sometimes harvest if I need to farm over cattle to get a perfect triangle of farms or something.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I also saw a guide video, talking about how to choose a city's first placement, butu the line that struck me was starting a Campus on or around turn thirty "around when you settle your third city". I don't know that I have ever settled two additional cities by turn 30...that seems crazy fast. I'd love context thoughts on this too, so that I can get back into the game sooner rather than later.

I’d wager they started in an optimal site relative to production and growth as well as overflow chopped a woods tile on a 1-turn left to produce settler with Magnus and the +50% settler card.

I used to harvest to beat the AI on Deity.
I've stopped harvesting, and it doesn't make much of a difference. You can still cruise to victory on Deity, winning 50 to 100 turns before the AI without harvesting or conquering.
The main thing in Civ 6 is there's lots of things to build and very few of them impact whether you win or not. If you're playing to develop a fun empire, that doesn't matter. Build what you want, when you want it.

A quick observation on this: I think this statement becomes less valid as the map gets larger. Given enough opportunity, a given AI will stumble its way into snowballing enough to give me a run for my money. I am quite certain that, if I had played peaceful and not chopped, there would be essentially no chance for me to have won a fair number of deity level games I have played on ludicrous sized maps (200x100). I haven’t tested the theory much, as I don’t much care to lose to the AI.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I can't avoid chopping because then you have to forego a lot of wonders in the game, and I refuse to do that. This is also why I refuse to play on Deity.

It's also a simple fact that district scaling is simply out of control and it is difficult to build cities late game without chopping. This just makes the late game incredibly tedious and boring. Sure, you can still win, but if that's the case, I'd rather just call it when I'm obviously ahead.

Simply put, Magnus was a way to fix something that was broken to begin with...., by breaking it further. The game is simply going out of its way to stop you from building real cities and actually playing the game is penalized.With Magnus, at the very least you can have decent sized, developed cities, even if it technically doesn't really help you win either way.

And yes you can win without chopping or even building any districts besides Campus. I mean, I've won on Emperor with 3 cities. But a lot of this is because the AI doesn't play the game, not because it's a good idea.

 

[Victoria]

Simply put, Magnus was a way to fix something that was broken to begin with...., by breaking it further.

So, so true.

You can win with 1 city on deity if the moon is in the 7th house

 

[Disgustipated]

Some bonus resources are kind of crappy, and nothing wrong with harvesting them. Desert hill sheep are pretty crappy. Stone in general isn't that great, especially stone grassland hills (though early on it's not bad, and good for a eureka). But if you have a lot of flat grassland, and stone is your only production, I like to keep it around if I don't have hills to mine.

 

[anandus]

I almost never harvest. Only if I'm placing a district there, then I harvest.

I do chop, though. Although I'm very happy that they've fixed the overflow exploit in GS.

 

[Graethyenne]

Thanks folks, the re-calibration is extremely helpful, especially that 10 cities by turn 100 metric (I am a systems guy, I like metrics

I am also very happy that the production overflow will be changed in GS as that always felt wrong to me, and probably de-emphasizes harvesting as well, right?

 

[Cerilis]

I think stones should be buffed.

 

[ezysquire]

Chopping is extremely useful for building districts in cities that have relatively low production. In a coastal city for example, it's better to chop the two woods you have available to build a harbour district than to plod along with the relatively small production yields of those woods.

 

[Victoria]

I am a systems guy, I like metrics

Welcome to the club. This game has so many choices that most metrics are conditional rather than hard and fast but 10/100 has always been an agreed good target.

I think you can add to that new government around T50, Fedalism around T70 are good measurements also. Not always easy unless around prince.

 

[Disgustipated]

Are those numbers on normal speed?

I usually don't pay attention to my numbers. Getting that government with Rome or another civ that can produce culture will be significantly faster.