On Settlements

[Endovior]

Playing the Kuriotates, and something unusual happened. Due to a rare combination of floodplains and food resources, I have managed to get a Settlement up to size 10... I think I might even be able to get it as far as 11, with some tweaking of improvements. (Note that Settlements, owing to their -50% , require 4 per citizen)

Would it be possible to allow Settlements that get really uber to partially buy off the disadvantage imposed by the Settlement building? Perhaps a building, available only in Settlements, called Colony, requiring 500 and at least 5 citizens.

The Colony building would replace the Settlement and grant -25% , -25% , -50% , and -50% . As it would replace the Settlement, Colonies would thus become fully vulnerable to unhappiness, unhealthiness, maintainance, and war weariness. It would permit the construction of a few low-tech buildings (Brewery, Carnival, Elder Council, Hunting Lodge, Granary, Market, Monument, Smokehouse, Walls) and Tier-1 Units (Tier-1 units only, with the exception of Hunters with a Hunting Lodge, and Adepts with a Mage Guild [w/Catacomb Libralus, as a Colony can't build a Mage Guild... this gives the Kuriotates a reason to build the Catacomb Libralus])

Thoughts?

 

[Mesix]

I like settlements the way they are now. I do think that it would be nice to be able to build a few more buildings though. An inn is a good example of a building I would expect to find in a settlement. Buildings related to any resources that are supplied there (like a brewery if there is grain or a winery if there is wine) would make sense as well.

 

[Endovior]

Well, an Inn wouldn't be very useful in a settlement...

Consider it's four effects.

1: Heals units 25% Damage / Turn
-This is the only really useful effect provided.

2: +1 Trade Routes
-This isn't useful... the extra from the trade route is nullified by the Settlement's -100% . The only benefit it offers is the spreading of religion... which is a fairly minor factor.

3: +25% Trade Route Yield
-This is totally useless; no matter how profitable the trade route may be, -100% kills it dead.

4: +1 from Wine
-This is totally useless, as settlements have no unhappiness.

Really, if you want to add beneficial structures to a settlement, you must first have some way to open it up to commerce... otherwise, all your buildings get stomped by the settlement's multiple -100%'s. As is, there isn't anything useful that can be done in a Settlement other then and a bit of defense... not because you can only build a monument and walls, but because of the modifiers. Hence my suggestion of colonies.

 

[Mesix]

Actually...I was referring to the healing bonus for units when I mentioned the inn. I find that settlements are near the frontier of my Empire, and make a nice place for battle weary travelers to rest. IMO, buildings that give bonuses to healing and other unit effects should be standard fare for frontier settlements.

 

[Mesix]

I have a question about settlements.

I understand that the core cities are the ones that are founded early and that any founded later or taken from an enemy become settlements. As a settlement, the player cannot build wonders or many of the structures that a normal city can.

What I was wondering is what happens to the structures (especially wonders or unique buildings) that are in a city that is conquered when it becomes a settlement. Are the wonders retained intact or removed from the settlement? If wonders and religious buildings are destroyed, it makes the Kuriotates a very disadvantaged civ.

 

[BCalchet]

I'm pretty sure the same rules apply as for normal city captures/conversions/gifts - at the very least, wonders remained standing in cities gifted by allies in .15k.

 

[Endovior]

All these things stay around, IIRC... but many of them aren't much use in a Settlement.

I'd also note that any unit which has the power to build a structure in a city can do so in a Settlement, as well... it's just usually not worth the trouble.

 

[bagboy]

Re: Inns.

Settlement inns would count towards the Eyes and Ears Network, which Kuriotates can't build unless you're playing on a Huge world.

It seems to me that several buildings might be appropriate for settlements: Temples, Castles, Carnivals (and Cages), and Obsidian Gates spring to mind.

 

[Rhoz]

Ok, I am lost here guys. I am playing either the Kuriotates and/or the Sheaim and for a while I can make cities, then suddenly, out of the blue, all the "cities" my settlers build are actually settlements!

Seems I cant build more than like 5 cities!!

Why is that? Anyone else having these issues?
Can a settlement ever get an upgrade to a city?

Rhoz

 

[Sareln]

The number of proper "cities" that the Kuriotates and Sheaim can build is based on map size. Because of certain advantages/fluff that they have, they're supposed to be more focused on a select number of cities - rather than a massive empire. They can still sieze territory with settlements, and their conquests are retained in this manner.

I know in .15k there was a function that allowed you to choose whether or not at founding a site would be a city or settlement until you hit the cap. Is that message no longer showing up?

 

[Maniac]

A way to reward the player for having high pop settlements while keeping the Kuriotate's special feel of being centered on a couple super cities:

1) Create a couple buildings that require a minimum size to be built. This is possible in XML IIRC. (Edit: or it isn't. Weird. ) Tag those buildings as religious buildings.
2) Add to the core City buildings +1 commerce per religious building in your empire, similar to the Spiral Minaret/Twisted Spire.

Thus your core cities are rewarded for having a large empire. Opens up other victory conditions besides cultural victory, and would prevent a lategame slowdown in research.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Ok, I am lost here guys. I am playing either the Kuriotates and/or the Sheaim and for a while I can make cities, then suddenly, out of the blue, all the "cities" my settlers build are actually settlements!

Seems I cant build more than like 5 cities!!

Why is that? Anyone else having these issues?
Can a settlement ever get an upgrade to a city?

Rhoz

By the way, it's only the Kuriotates, and to make up for it their cities can work tiles further out than other civ's cities.

 

[Endovior]

A way to reward the player for having high pop settlements while keeping the Kuriotate's special feel of being centered on a couple super cities:

1) Create a couple buildings that require a minimum size to be built. This is possible in XML IIRC. (Edit: or it isn't. Weird. ) Tag those buildings as religious buildings.
2) Add to the core City buildings +1 commerce per religious building in your empire, similar to the Spiral Minaret/Twisted Spire.

Thus your core cities are rewarded for having a large empire. Opens up other victory conditions besides cultural victory, and would prevent a lategame slowdown in research.

That sounds like a good idea... I tend to agree.

Not sure it should be tied to religion, though... if it's a 'Big Empire, Big Trade' thing, then how about this...

Trading Post (Available with Exploration)
+10% Trade Route Yield
+1
(Available to Kuriotate Cities, and Settlements with at least 3 population)

Market (Available with Festivals)
+3 , -1
(Available to all Cities, and Settlements with at least 6 population)

Bazzar (Available with Mercantilism)
+5
(Available to Kuriotate Cities, and Settlements with at least 10 population)

Guild Headquarters (Kuriotate-Only Wonder, Available with Guilds)
+100% Trade Route Yield
+1 Trade Route
+1 per Trading Post, Market, and Bazzar in empire
+3 Culture
+2 (Great Merchant)

 

[Sareln]

You would still need some way around the -100% penalties in commerce inflicted upon settlements...

 

[Endovior]

That brings the matter full circle. What Trading Posts and Bazzars do is not to benefit the settlements so much as it is to benefit the home city... specifically, whichever one built the Guild Headquarters (which, for optimum potential, will also be the city that founded your religion and holds your Bazzar of Mammon).

The question is one of desireability of allowing Settlements commerce. I say that it is desireable, and provided Colonies as a means of doing so. What does everyone else think?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

What does everyone else think?

I think it depends, not on whether settlements are useful, but whether or not Kuriotates are able to keep pace technologically with other civs. If so, then settlements should be left alone. If Kuriotates can't keep up, then a boost like a trading post would be good.
I like it themeatically, making colonies slightly more interesting, but civs are balanced on the whole.

 

[DieselBiscuit]

The question is one of desireability of allowing Settlements commerce. I say that it is desireable, and provided Colonies as a means of doing so. What does everyone else think?

Kuriotates are one of my favourite civs in FFH and they are far from underpowered. If you manage to get a decent coastal city or two and nab the Lighthouse you will easily make 150-200 per city from trade alone. Adding a 100% this (effectively 50% of the value mentioned because of existing improvements) is a little over the top, but something to spice up the settlements would be nice.

How about settlement specific improvements only available to coastal and riverside settlements that each grants +1 or 2 to a main city with your aforementioned wonder? Or perhaps a / bonus as a function of buildings dependent on resources inside the fat cross?

 

[Mesix]

I'm not sure if settlements need to have economy benefits (although that would be nice). What I think they are lacking is the ability to have buildings that benefit units that are stationed there (like increased healing). Ideally most of the fighting should take place near the frontier of the empire where all the "cities" are settlements. It would be nice if the units that are deployed to the frontier area had the ability to heal/upgrade in the settlements.

 

[Shadowsong0]

Kuriotates are more than a match for any other nation in FFH, especially on crowded maps. The 3 things i'd like to see buildable in settlements are inns (for eyes and ears wonder and the healing bonus) and libraries (prerequisite for the early great library wonder if you prefer to build your second/third supercity later) and the obsidian gates.

As a rule of thumb: if a wonder requires x buildings to be build in an empire, settlements should be able to build those buildings.