Open Borders - Give or Buy?

[RaidandTrade]

Been away from Civ for a bit and playing a cultural game. Do I want to buy or give/sell open borders for tourism multiplier?

 

[Japper007]

There is a modifier of 25% associated with mutual Open Borders. Some later civics also give Tourism modifiers for international trade routes

I hate open borders however, with the AI's pathfinding, so I never sign them in single player. Once signing open borders with everyone actually delayed my Tourism Victory, because the AI flooded so many units into my borders that I couldn't collect Archeology stuff or build Seasise Resorts.

 

[soulsprit]

@Japper007

Exactly! And then their troops get stuck within your or in between someone elses border when open borders decline or war is waged upon the particular civ. Under many circumstances they get stuck where they are under those conditions. And then the game 'may' behave by stalling that specific civ because it hangs on its own programmed step where its willing to relocate its troops while it can't or fails to pathfind properly. Stupid AI!

@RaidandTrade

When signing Mutual borders for the tourism modifier you can often have the AI pay a gold coin or two for 30 turns. Sometimes they actually ask gold but then I would pick other civs imo. Just a tip

 

[RaidandTrade]

Thanks for the replies.

Mutual seems like you benefit their tourism and yours for a net nil gain. Feels wrong...

I have mutual going at the moment and it's not too bad "operationally" - not tripping over units. Not sure I see the benefit so probabaly will revert to closed borders next game.

DOF with all but one so war is not looking like a big deal.

 

[Lucius_]

open borders goes a long way toward friendships though. Diplomacy can be ignored completely if you want, but if you do not like/want everyone hating you, open borders.

 

[BlueFlamingWings]

My only experience with open borders in this game is getting them when exploring, specifically having a Scout at a AIs horse and signing one to further explore.

 

[Mahasona]

Open borders have to be mutual for the modifier? I've only been letting the tourists in, not mine out...

 

[stinkubus]

Open borders? Bringing a unit within three tiles of my borders is an act of war, imo, and the offender is dealt with at the first opportunity.

 

[BlueFlamingWings]

Open borders? Bringing a unit within three tiles of my borders is an act of war, imo, and the offender is dealt with at the first opportunity.

Do you play on Deity?

 

[stinkubus]

No, only Emperor, but units in your neighborhood are no nonsense regardless. Emperor AI will still gang up on you, just not as frequently nor will they have as many units, but it's still disruptive and can turn a great start into a slog of a game. Even if that AI doesn't intend to attack at the moment it will inevitably prevent me from targeting another civ or sending units out to scout. Units nearby in the very early game also mean there's a very good chance you've spawned very close and they are about to forward settle you, so there's some chance that you may capture one and get to pick where the city goes.

Ideally I want to get someone's cap with warriors and archers within the first 20-40 turns. That means I can't keep too many units on the homefront for defense, so I might as well go after the trespasser first.

 

[Victoria]

Do I want to buy or give/sell open borders for tourism multiplier?

It has always been the case of them opening their borders for you to gain the tourism benefit for open borders. It may sound wrong but the mechanic is the right way around as in they control their flow of tourism to you.

I have just tested all 3 options again to make sure the patch did not break anything

I've only been letting the tourists in, not mine out...

Then you have been doing yourself an injustice, check the culture victory screen and hover over a civ to get the above which tells you if you are getting the benefit
If at all unsure the guide here should tell you most things... as it happens it was not clear on this so I have updated it., thank you!
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/culture-victory-guide.25713/

Alliances have open borders automatically but they are broken at the moment.

Mutual seems like you benefit their tourism and yours for a net nil gain. Feels wrong.

Not quite right. It is about your tourism vs the civ with the fastest growing culture. Their trourism is nothing to do with your victory and does not affect it. If you are making more tourism than them and have higher culture per turn then feel free to open your borders, in the opposite case opening borders speeds up their victory a little but is not the main factor.... go to war with them to stop trade routes and sack their lands to lower their culture output.

Open borders has no cards or other modifiers so will always be a flat 25%
Trade route can even get above 100% with the right great merchants... and a trade route can be either way... not just you sending them so is much easier.....one good trick is to get a city with great gold giving potential and civs all connect for a trade route, egypt has an advantage here.

 

[RaidandTrade]

@Victoria - Thanks for your work and summary. I managed to grind out to victory but, as always, looking to improve the turn times.

Hopefully a needed patch comes soon and fixes a few of the things that got broken!

 

[KingCheops]

Early game when expanding --> buy open from neighbors without giving open in return, mutual open borders with non-adjacent civs

Mid to late game depends on circumstances. If peaceful then I give mutual open borders for tourism and diplomacy. If warmongering it doesn't matter because I'm at war with them anyway.

 

[Victoria]

Early game when expanding

Early game I will prostitute my open borders to anyone, I will never spend my money on theirs while diplomacy is broken, when it's fixed again I will buy open borders only from whome it is worth doing so.

Mid to late game my borders are closed unless I see sound reason.
I'll buy open borders with every civ if need be for cultural win, otherwise only for nefarious reason.