open letter to firaxis: come back to alpha centauri approach

[marioflag]

first of all it's not a thread to criticize civilization4 which i enjoyed so much up to now, i started it only to ask firaxis why they haven't take advantage of some strong points of AC in civ3 and civ4.
There are some examples:
-in the diplomacy screen of alpha centauri u could prepare common battle plan with ur allies; after a total victory against an enemy it could become yourr puppet regime.
-espionage: this is probably the worst changing from AC to civ3 and civ4.In AC u could have a lot of different espionage missions in ciiv4 spy missions are totally dumbed down.
-civ4 movies are not comparable to the fantastic movies of AC
-united nations were better implented in AC than now and a screen in which u see all leaders while they were voting the resolution was very good
-it's only my opinion but leaders lost a lot of personality since AC (I will never hate Montezuma as i hated Sister Miriam) but after all it's not so important
Civ 4 INTRODUCED A LOT OF NEW THINGS BUTWHY SO MUCH THINGS FROM A GAME PUBLISHED 5-6 YEARS HAVE BEEN DROPPED.
CIV4 IS A VERY GOOD GAME BUT I DON'T FEEL THE DEEPNESS AND CARE FOR PARTICULARS AS IN AC.
ANOTHER THING WHICH APPEARS CLEAR TO ME IS THAT CIVILIZATION SERIES WAS A LOT DUMBED DOWN THAN AC, I CAN EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE FIRAXIS IS TRYING TO LAUNCH MORE COMMERCIAL GAMES BUT WHY DROP THINGS SO GOOD IMPLENTED YEARS AGO.
ANYWAY SORRY FOR MY IMPERFECT ENGLISH

 

[Casluerj]

I'd love to use that "vassalization" feature that AC had in CIV... This way I wouldnt have to destroy that junk nation and could even use his votes in UN.

Also, in AC you could change the VOTE of whatever nation, bribing then, etc... This would also be an excellent new feature.

 

[Corlindale]

Also, in AC you could change the VOTE of whatever nation, bribing then, etc... This would also be an excellent new feature.

This feature made it almost ridicolusly easy to pass whatever resolutions you liked, and I wouldn't like to see it back, unless most nations would require VERY high bribes to be swayed for important issues.

 

[Casluerj]

This feature made it almost ridicolusly easy to pass whatever resolutions you liked, and I wouldn't like to see it back, unless most nations would require VERY high bribes to be swayed for important issues.

Well, I am sure that this can be work out... The important is that we should have a way to "convince" a nation to vote at your side.

 

[TLHeart]

The other thing that was implemented in SMAC was the option to hide the tech tree, and reserch in 4 different areas, but you did not get to pick the actual tech you were researching. Made it much more challenging.

Now that we have 3D, why not have the terrian elevations like SMAC did? Instead we got a flat map, with bumbs called peaks, and rivers that flow, with no regard for elevations. And the Elevations in SMAC affected the rainfall patterns, which changed the placement of cities.

I could go on and on...........

Back to taking over the world

 

[insectile]

I agree with this 100%. AC had so much more personality than any of the other civs. I love Civ IV, but AC in so many ways still seems like a more evolved game.

 

[Zhahz]

<shrug> I didn't care for AC when I had it. I wish they'd simply re-release it for WinXp so it could be played without hassles.

Side note: butchery of English can be excused (as long as it's not your primary language!) but hopefully paragraphs and capslock are universal.

 

[Zombie69]

Well, i hate SMAC, and i love Civ 3 and Civ 4. I'm glad Civ 4 is nothing like SMAC. You like SMAC? Play SMAC! I like Civ so i'll play Civ!

 

[bonscott]

<shrug> I didn't care for AC when I had it. I wish they'd simply re-release it for WinXp so it could be played without hassles.

Guess you aren't aware that they have had a Win XP patch out for over 3 years for AC.

http://www.firaxis.com/games/game_detail.php?gameid=7

 

[Mister.Donut]

SMAC did have some interesting differences from civ2 which made it a completely new game rather than just a new tileset.

I might like to see SMAC 2.

 

[MrCynical]

I was never a great fan of SMAC since I'd played a lot of Civ 2, and some of the sci-fi mods by the time I got it. As a result it felt rather like a heavily modified version of Civ 2 rather than a game in it's own right. True it had some good new features that I'd like to see back, but it also had some terrible ones which I'm amazed made it into the game.

Diplomacy had some good points I'd like to see back, and Civ badly needs multilateral diplomacy. It is a lot harder to exploit the Civ 4 system though.

Espionage is getting to the right stage in Civ 4. Tech steal needs to come back, but that's about it really in my opinion.

They certainly need to make a decision one way or the other on wonder movies. Either go for the impressive wonder movies of SMAC, or none at all like Civ 3. The Civ 4 ones are very generic and feel like a token, but probably still time consuming, effort.

The Civ 4 UN is a mess, enough said. It needs a major overall so you have the option whether to be in it or not, and the associated diplomatic effects.

I'm not so sure about leader personalities. SMAC's leaders were fictional and there were only 8 of them, which made it rather easier for them. The Civ 4 ones are much more numerous and have to be loosely based on real people rather than the heavily one sided personalities of SMAC which could fit neatly into the game.

There are also some things in SMAC I hope never to see in Civ, such as the design workshop and the ridiculously alterable terrain.

 

[Byrath]

The other thing that was implemented in SMAC was the option to hide the tech tree, and reserch in 4 different areas, but you did not get to pick the actual tech you were researching. Made it much more challenging.

I loved this part of SMAC. It felt so much more natural. Choosing what technologies to research is largely unrealistic, though it does add a strategic layer to the game, of course.

They certainly need to make a decision one way or the other on wonder movies. Either go for the impressive wonder movies of SMAC, or none at all like Civ 3. The Civ 4 ones are very generic and feel like a token, but probably still time consuming, effort.

Totally agree.. I loved the SMAC wonder movies.

There are also some things in SMAC I hope never to see in Civ, such as the design workshop and the ridiculously alterable terrain.

I did not like the workshop either, too much micromanagement for my taste. Never got a feel for the terraforming, as I was not very good at such games at the time and automated all my formers.
Add to the list of things they should not bring over to Civ: a terrain type that can take multiple turns to pass through (ie. xenofungus). I remember having units get stuck on the same tile for 5-10 turns straight.

 

[Frostyboy]

Yes, it was a kind of deevolution freom AC back to Civ3. The greatest was the overflow from previous builds, that now finally!!! has been reintroduced in CIv4. I really enyoed the unit workshop and making my own units, but htat part doesn't fit in the civ series. Neither do the energy levels, but elevations could have been reintroduced. And I agree with the peronalities. I miss the Quote "Nothing peronal, but I will look greatly forrward to your execution - I will of course derive great pleasure from it"
And the unique areas which contained special rescources were really great and a big flavour to the game. All the options and the flexebility.

My biggest CIV-dream now is that they make a AC-mod for CIV4 (since AC2 probably never will come out as a separate game )

 

[Karl Townsend]

ok i never played civ 3 BUT WTH IS SO SPECIL ABOUT ALPHA CENTURI

 

[thordk]

the storyline

 

[Smidlee]

The other thing that was implemented in SMAC was the option to hide the tech tree, and reserch in 4 different areas, but you did not get to pick the actual tech you were researching. Made it much more challenging.

IMO it really didn't matter if you could pick your tech or not since the AI couldn't graps all the options that were available like a human player could. I really didn't spend the time figuring out what each tech did so random tech option gave me one less thing to worry about. So for me the random tech idea was more of a lazy option than one to increase the challenge.
I like the idea some here came up with about picking one modern tech and sticking with it until you get it.

 

[Karl Townsend]

the storyline

thats not answeing my question

 

[thordk]

you asked what's so special about alpha centauri. and my answer has been appropriate. SMAC has a storyline, parts of a story popping up every now and then at certain points in history, revealing the mysteries of alpha centauri.

if you want a answer more regarding to gameplay: ac has a height axis. ac allows for creating unique units by choosing between armor types, weaponry etc. and ac has the planet buster! which is able to completely wipe a city off the surface of the planet.
this are rather special features.

but the storyline is the most special feature ^^

 

[todd1701d]

I never got interested in AC. It's sitting on my game shelf, but hasn't been on a computer in well over 5 or 6 years. I'm sure it had its good points and bad points, most games do, but I'm still just trying to get used to Civ4 (had system issues so just now starting to play it).

 

[Yehbo]

and ac has the planet buster! which is able to completely wipe a city off the surface of the planet.

Not only that, it changes the landscape in a way that's only possible with a true 3D map - it leaves a massive crater!

I think some things in SMAC were appropriate to SMAC but not good in a CIV "real tech" game.

The ability to completely alter land (and sea!) is fun in sci fi because it's the fantasy of true terraforming. In scifi it's cool and more plausible to raise mountains, create artificial lakes, plant forests and fungus, drill holes to the core.

Real tech, this kind of terraforming just doesn't happen (with the possible exception of reclaiming coast into land - Netherlands, now Saudi, plus many coastal cities in the world on a smaller scale).

Random techs - also a good option to have in a scifi game, because the techs are not as intuitive as real techs. The wheel and the alphabet excite the imagination in a whole different way to "Level IV Shields".

Obviously the fungus and Planet fall under a similar category - great with a scifi story line, but plaine weird in real tech.

I liked the workshop as a concept, although I think it could be implemented a lot better. The cool thing about the workshop units is that you can intuitively see how tough they are - when you see an enemy buggy you can see what shields and weaponry and power plant it has. In a real tech game, we know intuitively that tanks are stronger than horse archers, but in scifi, the workshop style graphics are the only way I can think of to get a similar intuition.

Again, a succession of fixed, fictional scifi units would be less enjoyable, I think, because they don't capture the imagination. Better to see what's coming for you (even if it makes the units slightly less graphically varied than they would be otherwise).