Opening Gambit

[patrickkrebs]

I thought I'd start this discussion since it hadn't been brought up yet. Can we talk about the opening gambits.

I have tried Customizing my workers on the outset:
(You can work two tiles, so which tiles?)
- 2 Food Tiles
- 2 Hammer Tiles
- 2 Trade Tiles

I have found the computer default of one hammer and one food the best option. Opening with 2 Food tiles being worked seems pretty awesome, but when you compare it next to the cost of not destroying barbarians its just not worth it.

Building at the outset:
(What do you build first? What is your build order?)
- Warriors?
- Settlers?
- Galley?

On the Chieftain demo I'd built the galley right off the bat and send him toward the Ankor Wat artifact.


Also, I've tried attacking Monty (playing as Caeser) at several point in the timeline. I never seem to have enough soldiers or archers. Does anyone know what the computers rate of build is or what their order is?

 

[Sanchez]

1 and 1 will never be the best option, assuming that you could work 2 tiles of either type.

That is because whatever "stuff" you get (population growth from food, units from production) with the 1-1 tile layout could always be gotten faster by doing 2 tiles of one type until you get stuff, then switching to 2 tiles of the other type.

As a concrete example, imagine you work 1 food and 1 production tile (each with 2 food/production). Let's say you are building a warrior (10 production) and it takes 12 food to grow your city to the next size. With 1-1 you will build the warrior in 5 turns, and grow in 6. Instead, if you do 2-0,2-0,1-1,0-2,0-2,0-2 (shown as Production-Food tiles worked) you'll build your warrior in three turns and grow in six. Front loading the food allows you to grow in three turns and build your warrior in five (assuming you have at least one 1 production tile to work).

So it will always be true that when you have enough identical tiles to choose to work many of the same type, it will always be better (or no worse, at least, due to rounding) to mircomanage it so that you switch between heavy production/heavy food/heavy trade to decrease latency to complete stuff. When you have some tiles that are much better than average, it is not so straightforward. It may be better to always work those tiles in that case (depends on how much better they are, and how much getting stuff earlier is worth).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

One other point is that its only in the demo that you start with 2 pop. In the normal game you start with 1 (supposedly). (in which case it is almost always better to get food first... unless you see a relic 2 tiles away

 

[salty mud]

I get cities starting with different sizes. The largest I've had is a size 3 starting city, but I like to solely focus my cities on food until they grow to a decent size, then switch to some hammers/beakers.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well the very First city should be pop 1 unless you are chinese.

Later on you can get the +1 pop from Irrigation bonus, the +1 pop from Gold bonus, Modern Era Roman bonus.

 

[Helmling]

1 and 1 will never be the best option, assuming that you could work 2 tiles of either type.

That is because whatever "stuff" you get (population growth from food, units from production) with the 1-1 tile layout could always be gotten faster by doing 2 tiles of one type until you get stuff, then switching to 2 tiles of the other type.

As a concrete example, imagine you work 1 food and 1 production tile (each with 2 food/production). Let's say you are building a warrior (10 production) and it takes 12 food to grow your city to the next size. With 1-1 you will build the warrior in 5 turns, and grow in 6. Instead, if you do 2-0,2-0,1-1,0-2,0-2,0-2 (shown as Production-Food tiles worked) you'll build your warrior in three turns and grow in six. Front loading the food allows you to grow in three turns and build your warrior in five (assuming you have at least one 1 production tile to work).

So it will always be true that when you have enough identical tiles to choose to work many of the same type, it will always be better (or no worse, at least, due to rounding) to mircomanage it so that you switch between heavy production/heavy food/heavy trade to decrease latency to complete stuff. When you have some tiles that are much better than average, it is not so straightforward. It may be better to always work those tiles in that case (depends on how much better they are, and how much getting stuff earlier is worth).

I think what's he's saying is that you have to consider that faster growth and earlier production capacity against the potential benefits of taking barbarians out and getting money and experience.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

But producing 2h-0f then 0h-2f will give will you the Warrior earlier, and the pop growth at the same time

You should always put all of your effort in to one thing at a time, unless some of the effort would get wasted.

 

[durecellrabbit]

Well the very First city should be pop 1 unless you are chinese.

Later on you can get the +1 pop from Irrigation bonus, the +1 pop from Gold bonus, Modern Era Roman bonus.

Are you sure? The only time I've ever had pop 1 cities was as the Mongols from barbarian villages and that's with civs other than the Chinese.

 

[Sanchez]

I think what's he's saying is that you have to consider that faster growth and earlier production capacity against the potential benefits of taking barbarians out and getting money and experience.

Yeah, what Krikkitone said - it doesn't matter where you consider the ideal balance between growth and current production to be - concentrating on one type of tile will dominate a mixed strategy under the restrictions given. That is, a mixed tile strategy could be a replaced with another that is better or equal to every milestone.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Are you sure? The only time I've ever had pop 1 cities was as the Mongols from barbarian villages and that's with civs other than the Chinese.

Actually it does appear I was mistaken, apparently I've heard that the pop of a new city is 1 +1 per era (+ civ bonuses)
[although I guess barb 'cities' have pop 1]