techumseh
Deity
To update folks on my progress so far.
Operation Seelowe.
- Thread starter techumseh
- Start date
techumseh
Deity
Reply to JPetroski: Pretty good progress so far. I want to keep this one as simple as possible. I started with an unfinished scenario long since abandoned by it's author, so it gave me a complete map with all the cities and improvements. That saved a bit of time. I've completed the units and I'm finalizing the Rules. I'm planning to use some of the features I tried out in Operation Market Garden including a minimal tech tree, mainly unbuildable units and events-driven AI counter-attacks.
I've spent the afternoon trying to sort out air unit ranges. The map is pretty small scale (5.5km/tile), so realistic aircraft ranges would be far too large. I'm being pretty arbitrary, giving German bombers a 4 turn endurance, while limiting the AI controlled RAF bombers to the maximum ranges allowed based on 2 turn endurance. Luftwaffe fighters have 2 turn ranges, allowing them to escort bombers and to limit their attacks. RAF fighters have a 1 turn range, making them less vulnerable to attack.
I will have more time in the next few weeks, so I hope to have units, city improvements and initial unit placement done by Christmas, and do events and initial playtesting by New Years.
I've spent the afternoon trying to sort out air unit ranges. The map is pretty small scale (5.5km/tile), so realistic aircraft ranges would be far too large. I'm being pretty arbitrary, giving German bombers a 4 turn endurance, while limiting the AI controlled RAF bombers to the maximum ranges allowed based on 2 turn endurance. Luftwaffe fighters have 2 turn ranges, allowing them to escort bombers and to limit their attacks. RAF fighters have a 1 turn range, making them less vulnerable to attack.
I will have more time in the next few weeks, so I hope to have units, city improvements and initial unit placement done by Christmas, and do events and initial playtesting by New Years.
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techumseh
Deity
It was an MGE beta released by a Nial Vivian in about 2002. He used Captain Nemo's map from his attempt to create a Battle of Britain scenario, which failed because of the inadequacies of the AI. No surprise for anyone who has tried to make a serious scenario. 
techumseh
Deity
With a somewhat lighter work schedule as we head into the holidays, I've been able to make good progress. The units are almost done (one to go), as is the units and tech sections of the Rules Text. I've rounded up most of the sounds I need as well. The map was already done, but I've tweaked the Terrain files and added a city on the north map edge to represent Scapa Flow. The naval factor will be more important than I initially thought. Getting past the Royal Navy was the German's greatest challenge for a successful invasion.
Historically, without a decisive win in the Battle of Britain, the Germans didn't have a chance. Even then, it would have been dicey. For the purposes of this "what if" scenario, I am assuming that the naval battles in the Norwegian campaign went against the British, that the Germans won the Battle of Britain, and that the Bismarck and Graf Zeppelin were completed ahead of schedule. That should give the Kreigsmarine and the Luftwaffe a fighting chance to stop the Royal Navy from destroying the landing barges.
I hope to be able to start placing units and begin the events this weekend. I'll provide an update then.
Historically, without a decisive win in the Battle of Britain, the Germans didn't have a chance. Even then, it would have been dicey. For the purposes of this "what if" scenario, I am assuming that the naval battles in the Norwegian campaign went against the British, that the Germans won the Battle of Britain, and that the Bismarck and Graf Zeppelin were completed ahead of schedule. That should give the Kreigsmarine and the Luftwaffe a fighting chance to stop the Royal Navy from destroying the landing barges.
I hope to be able to start placing units and begin the events this weekend. I'll provide an update then.
techumseh
Deity
Thanks. I'll let you know when it's ready for a test drive.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,462
The main thing that would have assured some kind of survival for the sick regime in Berlin would have been forgoing of the Barbarossa campaign.
That, and a certain Bohemian painter allowing his German General Corps to do their job unhindered.
Looking forward to seeing how this one pans out.
That, and a certain Bohemian painter allowing his German General Corps to do their job unhindered.
Looking forward to seeing how this one pans out.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
No self-respecting megalomaniacal dictator would ever let some "Generals" control their military!
Patine
Deity
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- Feb 14, 2011
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- 12,139
Emperor Palpatine did. The whole Imperial military apparatus was commanded directly by the Generals, Admirals, Moffs, and Grand Moffs, with Vader and (more rarely) Palpatine himself, supervising special projects of great importance. Just a note there.
techumseh
Deity
Thanks for that historical note, P. 
Now, back to invading Britain....
Now, back to invading Britain....
techumseh
Deity
Bad news, and good news. After making great progress on Seelowe, I realized that when you actually played as the German player (as intended), the game crashed. Couldn't fix it, I think something happened during the conversion. I'm feeling pretty stupid for not even running the thing before doing all that work.
Anyway, the good news is that I started from scratch and took the opportunity to expand the map. It's been dawning on me that the naval component will be critical to the scenario I have in mind, and the map seems inadequate for that. I've enlarged the map to the north and east. It adds the British ports of Glasgow and Belfast, and the German controlled ports of Antwerp, Rotterdam and Amsterdam, while greatly increasing the amount of the North Sea available for play. It also provides more challenge for the German who now has to fight his way through the mountainous border areas to capture Glasgow and Edinburgh to win.
I've finished the map and added the British cities. I'll do the German cities and add the terrain improvements next, and then I'll be back where I started. Hopefully nothing else major will go wrong.
Anyway, the good news is that I started from scratch and took the opportunity to expand the map. It's been dawning on me that the naval component will be critical to the scenario I have in mind, and the map seems inadequate for that. I've enlarged the map to the north and east. It adds the British ports of Glasgow and Belfast, and the German controlled ports of Antwerp, Rotterdam and Amsterdam, while greatly increasing the amount of the North Sea available for play. It also provides more challenge for the German who now has to fight his way through the mountainous border areas to capture Glasgow and Edinburgh to win.
I've finished the map and added the British cities. I'll do the German cities and add the terrain improvements next, and then I'll be back where I started. Hopefully nothing else major will go wrong.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,462
Check your rules categories and make sure the new Rules.txt has all the headings needed to play in ToT.
Also, crashes like this tend to be caused by the prerequisite techs being in error. Check the tech tree for bugs.
Also, crashes like this tend to be caused by the prerequisite techs being in error. Check the tech tree for bugs.
techumseh
Deity
Map and Rules txt. completed, cities and improvements done, and each British and German controlled city is now garrisoned. I'm now ready to finalize the OOB and place combat units on both sides. Then "save as scenario" and begin building the events. I have tomorrow off, so I hope to make good progress.
techumseh
Deity
Does anyone know what equipment the 7th Flieger Div. and the 22nd Air Landing Div. would have had in 1940? There is a dearth of info on the internet machine. Thanks.
Here's the oob of 7th Flieger division in 1940:
http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/fallschirmjager-(airborne)/7th-flieger-division/?wap2
Looks like at this stage of the war they had under-developed support troop formations with only a single company each of arty and AT guns. The artillery would presumably have been equipped with 7.5 cm Leichtgeschütz 40 EDIT: apparently first used in Crete in which case I dunno what they used.... As for the AT guns, they used the 2.8 sPzB 41 in Crete but obviously it wasn't available in 1940. Presumably they used AT rifles (?) Either way I wouldn't bother as it would be an insignificant sized and equiped unit to be effective at the scale of your scenario.
There's this for the 22nd ALB. It states the infantry support gun company used 2 SiG 15cms and 6 LiG 7.5s. I can draw these if required.
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/CGSC/CARL/nafziger/941GQLL.pdf
http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/fallschirmjager-(airborne)/7th-flieger-division/?wap2
Looks like at this stage of the war they had under-developed support troop formations with only a single company each of arty and AT guns. The artillery would presumably have been equipped with 7.5 cm Leichtgeschütz 40 EDIT: apparently first used in Crete in which case I dunno what they used.... As for the AT guns, they used the 2.8 sPzB 41 in Crete but obviously it wasn't available in 1940. Presumably they used AT rifles (?) Either way I wouldn't bother as it would be an insignificant sized and equiped unit to be effective at the scale of your scenario.
There's this for the 22nd ALB. It states the infantry support gun company used 2 SiG 15cms and 6 LiG 7.5s. I can draw these if required.
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/CGSC/CARL/nafziger/941GQLL.pdf
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techumseh
Deity
Thanks G. That helps.
I have been able to find out a bit more about equipment. For 7th Flieger in 1940, the artillery was not airborne, but traveled overland. Light AA and AT were carried in gliders, presumably along with some mortars. Pak36 anti-tank guns were used, replaced by Pak38s later in the fall. 20mm Flak38's were used for AA.
As for the 22nd Air Landing Div., I assume that that gliders were not utilized, but men and equipment were carried in Ju-52s to captured landing fields. Equipment would have been similar, including also motorcycles.
For my purposes, I can use the Pak36 and motorcycle you've already done, along with the mortar. For AA, I can use the heavy MG you've drawn. If you could reorient the weapon with an AA mount, it will do fine. I won't bother about the overland artillery. I will however need a Dfs 230 glider if you're willing. Thanks!
I have been able to find out a bit more about equipment. For 7th Flieger in 1940, the artillery was not airborne, but traveled overland. Light AA and AT were carried in gliders, presumably along with some mortars. Pak36 anti-tank guns were used, replaced by Pak38s later in the fall. 20mm Flak38's were used for AA.
As for the 22nd Air Landing Div., I assume that that gliders were not utilized, but men and equipment were carried in Ju-52s to captured landing fields. Equipment would have been similar, including also motorcycles.
For my purposes, I can use the Pak36 and motorcycle you've already done, along with the mortar. For AA, I can use the heavy MG you've drawn. If you could reorient the weapon with an AA mount, it will do fine. I won't bother about the overland artillery. I will however need a Dfs 230 glider if you're willing. Thanks!
techumseh
Deity
G, which of your trucks would have been in use by the British Army in 1940?
The Morris CS8 30cwt was around in 1939. If you want a bigger truck then go for the Bedford QLT 3 tonner from my truck pics (this was the standard troop transport until the end of the war). The latter was apparently 1941 but whatever.
techumseh
Deity
Here's an update on progress. The OOB for the British is now complete. There are 26 Divisions, 4 Brigade Groups and 10 independent Brigades. I've decided to go with battalion sized units for the Brits, so that will be 436 ground units, not including Home Army units. Add 70 naval units and 90 RAF squadrons and that's a lot of units. Divisions will be partly deployed in defensive positions and partly in reserve - created by events when the capture of certain cities triggers them. I've created 2 kinds of British infantry, one with a defensive role for the deployed units and an offensive role for the reserves. Aircraft will mostly start on the map, naval units will mostly be triggered by events. Home Army units will garrison cities and are the only units the Brits can build. Other reinforcements will be created by events.
German ground and air units will be a higher level: Wehrmacht regiments and Luftwaffe Gruppes. My experience is the AI should outnumber you 3-1 to make an equal match, and use of the different organizational levels is consistent with that. As the Germans needed to regroup and reorganize before being ready to invade, research of technologies will drive mobilization of German forces. Garrison and barge units will be the only buildable units.
As I mentioned, in order for Sealion to have any prospect of success, we have to assume weaker British air and naval forces than historically. I'm also adding the option of having the Bismarck and the Graf Zeppelin completed in time for the operation. Not historical, but then neither is the scenario.
German ground and air units will be a higher level: Wehrmacht regiments and Luftwaffe Gruppes. My experience is the AI should outnumber you 3-1 to make an equal match, and use of the different organizational levels is consistent with that. As the Germans needed to regroup and reorganize before being ready to invade, research of technologies will drive mobilization of German forces. Garrison and barge units will be the only buildable units.
As I mentioned, in order for Sealion to have any prospect of success, we have to assume weaker British air and naval forces than historically. I'm also adding the option of having the Bismarck and the Graf Zeppelin completed in time for the operation. Not historical, but then neither is the scenario.
