Order vs Autocracy?

[Wodan]

I build a courthouse more often than I rush buy one. It mostly depends on whether the city survived with a workshop etc. and has halfway good production tiles. If so, it only takes 5-6 turns or so, typically, before it cranks out that courthouse. Why rush buy if it can make it that fast? I'd rather save the money to buy more units or to rush buy in cities that really need it. Or to rush buy a workshop etc. which not only will help build the courthouse but get the city faster on the road to being a valuable asset to my empire.

 

[pilot00]

Autocracy is meant to played in combination with commerce, really. Cheaper military, cheaper courthouses, +6 happiness for every new resource you aquire through conquest.
With all those gold modifiers, bombers and nukes are dirt cheap.

Also, remember that you get culture for every city you capture. So you can get to the policy for +3 happiness per courthouse rather quickly which is just as good, if not better than order.

Overall, rushbuying 10 bombers with 3 promos each pretty much means game over. That's the real strength of autocracy.

This. Double resources is also a huge bonus. I use order only when I want to keep a large puppet empire but not go domination. In pure domination you need the right side of commerce and autocracy.

Realhunn, you said right to my mind cause I completed adopt the right side of commerce tree already. But one thing that still make me curious in autocracy ability is courthouse for happiness which you have to annex the city. So its make the cost of next SP far away. This is why many people use the strategy 'puppet every thing'. I think autocracy could be the most proper tree for domination if they change the way to get happiness bonus without relate to the courthouse.

Actually my easiest cultural victories came from Autocratic domination play. You just loot so much culture that way.
And you really dont need to annex every city, just ten or so to support your war machine.

 

[sendos]

Autocracy is meant to played in combination with commerce, really. Cheaper military, cheaper courthouses, +6 happiness for every new resource you aquire through conquest.
With all those gold modifiers, bombers and nukes are dirt cheap.

Also, remember that you get culture for every city you capture. So you can get to the policy for +3 happiness per courthouse rather quickly which is just as good, if not better than order.

Overall, rushbuying 10 bombers with 3 promos each pretty much means game over. That's the real strength of autocracy.

Indeed. Especially with the buff on luxury resources by 50%. Also acquire Big Ben if you can. I don't know if the percentages are added together or separately, but purchasing military units would cost 33% + 25% + 15% less. If the percentages are calculated separately, that's about 57% discount on units. Bombers normally costing about 790 gold on standard speed would cost around 380 gold.

Selling cities usually go for between 1000-4000 gold. Never rely on GPT in case they DoW you.

As for buffing the autocracy tree if it is still considered rather weak, it should have a policy that waives or reduces the unhappiness combat penalty. Even though the finisher somewhat neutralizes it, it shouldn't really do that if you have happiness problems. The issue with the courthouse buff from autocracy is that if you annex the cities too much in a short time, the culture cost skyrockets. So it's best to annex cities after finishing autocracy.

However, order enables you to have a backup victory plan should domination be a bit too far from your grasp. Also ideal if you want to get the remaining wonders such as Great Firewall by producing great engineers with faith. Order is also best on the defensive, especially with himeji castle. In vanilla, nationalism provided a 25% combat bonus in friendly lands, even though it said 15% in the policy and I don't know if G&K has fixed that.

 

[pilot00]

Well to be honest if you chosen to go a domination spree its a choice that it has to be made in the early game and usually there is no turning back so autocracy it is. No backup plans. You also must have honor IMHO.

Usually it goes like that: Tradition opener, honor opener, finish tradition, left side of honor, left side of commerce, rationalism (I have taken piety once and turned my domination spree into a cultural victory LOL) and autocracy. At least thats how I play it.

 

[dukedike]

Well to be honest if you chosen to go a domination spree its a choice that it has to be made in the early game and usually there is no turning back so autocracy it is. No backup plans. You also must have honor IMHO.

Usually it goes like that: Tradition opener, honor opener, finish tradition, left side of honor, left side of commerce, rationalism (I have taken piety once and turned my domination spree into a cultural victory LOL) and autocracy. At least thats how I play it.

Left side of commerce
Do you play in island map?

 

[Ryoga]

Well to be honest if you chosen to go a domination spree its a choice that it has to be made in the early game and usually there is no turning back so autocracy it is. No backup plans. You also must have honor IMHO.

Usually it goes like that: Tradition opener, honor opener, finish tradition, left side of honor, left side of commerce, rationalism (I have taken piety once and turned my domination spree into a cultural victory LOL) and autocracy. At least thats how I play it.

Emphasis mine. If we compare Autocray with Honor, honor wins hands down.

Autocracy comes very late in the game and you only need it if you are going on a conquest spree however the bonuses for gold and resources are rarely necessary at that point since you are already supposed to have a large territory (if you don't, then you did something wrong in your conquest strategies).

The main obstacle to your ambitions is happiness, and honor especially in late games is a lot better for that. Military tradition provides you with happiness for any defensive buildings which cost no maintenance and puppet states prioritize them frequently. Moreover you can garrison units in conquered cities to get an additional happiness right away without the need to wait for the conquered city to recover and you get culture too (whereas autocracy only gives you happiness if you annex cities first, you still need to wait for them to recover and you end up having a slower policy gain).

The exp bonus is godly, allowing you to get to logistics faster which basically doubles the power of your ranged and aircraft units. Range, Repair and march are also pretty awesome. There's absolutely no comparison with the lackluster fighting bonuses of autocracy.

Finally you get gold for any unit you kill, and since that depends on the enemy's strength, late game that's a lot of money, especially when the AI spams so many of them.

People that think Honor is useless only think it as a starting policy tree (in which case it is indeed weak) and forget it's a better late game tree than autocracy is.

 

[pilot00]

Left side of commerce
Do you play in island map?

Obviously I meant right

@Killbray, we agree on most parts, but Even in huge maps certain resources are luck dependent and even if you have them their yields might be iffy. If you have autocracy you simply don't care. You can spam every unit to your hearts content. It then becomes a matter of resource denial not resource necessity. Not to mention that on the off chance that there is still a friendly civ left in the game you can trade excess stuff to them. In a Dom play gold cannot be had in adequate supply ever.

While Id agree with Honor>Autocracy their functions are a bit different. Honor helps maintaining city happiness and train better units while allowing you to reap some benefits from kills, Autocracy on the other hand helps you push the final thrust by multiplying your gains (resources, happiness and lump sums from city capture), keeping your units into fighting readiness even when wounded and those 50 turns final push is the executioners hatchet on your enemies neck. If you also have faith those general buys can be essential. How many times I created a trench-line of citadels luring the AI to come to me and destroyed it without even attacking I don't know.

The courthouse buff also ignored by most is a bit of a godsend. If you fight on huge maps you will need to annex some puppets to keep the units rolling, so happiness managing is something that auto can help if a bit.

TLDR: IMHO both are complementary and essential to the tyra....excuse me....The true, enlightened leaders strategy

 

[RealHuhn]

Emphasis mine. If we compare Autocray with Honor, honor wins hands down.

Autocracy comes very late in the game and you only need it if you are going on a conquest spree however the bonuses for gold and resources are rarely necessary at that point since you are already supposed to have a large territory (if you don't, then you did something wrong in your conquest strategies).

The main obstacle to your ambitions is happiness, and honor especially in late games is a lot better for that. Military tradition provides you with happiness for any defensive buildings which cost no maintenance and puppet states prioritize them frequently. Moreover you can garrison units in conquered cities to get an additional happiness right away without the need to wait for the conquered city to recover and you get culture too (whereas autocracy only gives you happiness if you annex cities first, you still need to wait for them to recover and you end up having a slower policy gain).

The exp bonus is godly, allowing you to get to logistics faster which basically doubles the power of your ranged and aircraft units. Range, Repair and march are also pretty awesome. There's absolutely no comparison with the lackluster fighting bonuses of autocracy.

Finally you get gold for any unit you kill, and since that depends on the enemy's strength, late game that's a lot of money, especially when the AI spams so many of them.

People that think Honor is useless only think it as a starting policy tree (in which case it is indeed weak) and forget it's a better late game tree than autocracy is.

You would actually jump into Honor when Autocracy is available ?!?

And what does Honor offer in late game?
Bonus against barbs? Useless
Bonus for adjacent melee units? Useless, you should use aircraft, ships and fast moving stuff like cavalry or tanks.
Happiness per city garrison? Fairly useless. You fight a war. You need your troops at the frontline.
Free general? Useless, you will have too many generals anyways.
More XP? With XP buildings and possibly Brandenburg Gate, you can produce units with 3 promotions each. You don't need more XP.
Happiness per wall etc.? It's ok but definately not worth picking the Honor tree.

Seriously, for domination victory, Honor is much worse than Autocracy (and Order) in late game and Liberty is much better than Honor in early game.
My opinion (and also fact to be honest).

 

[sendos]

You would actually jump into Honor when Autocracy is available ?!?

And what does Honor offer in late game?
Bonus against barbs? Useless
Bonus for adjacent melee units? Useless, you should use aircraft, ships and fast moving stuff like cavalry or tanks.
Happiness per city garrison? Fairly useless. You fight a war. You need your troops at the frontline.
Free general? Useless, you will have too many generals anyways.
More XP? With XP buildings and possibly Brandenburg Gate, you can produce units with 3 promotions each. You don't need more XP.
Happiness per wall etc.? It's ok but definately not worth picking the Honor tree.

Seriously, for domination victory, Honor is much worse than Autocracy (and Order) in late game and Liberty is much better than Honor in early game.
My opinion (and also fact to be honest).

Discipline and faster XP gain would be useful in Honor but that is all. You could go all the way to get the finisher and get gold from killing units. I thought discipline abilities remained for all units regardless of era.

 

[ense7en]

Autocracy is a pretty weak tree. The one thing that a domination game needs is happiness and Order provides that better than Autocracy.

Very debatable. +3 happiness per courthouse from Autocracy is arguably better. That lets you annex good cities and quickly build courthouses, allowing you to use those cities to produce even more units/science/etc.

Agree with the conclusion that order is simply better than autocracy for domination games. Aside from the policies being better, order enables faith-purchasing GE's, which are ALWAYS extremely beneficial, whereas autocracy enables GG's and GAd's, both of which you'll end up with more than you could possibly know what to do with anyway during a dom game (save possibly Sweden).

What in the world do you need GEs for?
Rushing wonders? If you are planning to dominate the world, wonders are highly unnecessary.
There is really no way to say Order is better than Autocracy for domination as it really isn't.

Another bad thing of annex city is the National wonders which some available in late game wide empire. Many of them is a must built - ironwork, oxford etc. If annex city doesn't have those requirement buildings, we have a chance to miss those NWs in that game

Honestly, other than the National College, NONE of the national wonders are must-builds.
Domination game, remember?
You don't need to annex every city.
Raze the crap ones, puppet the okay ones, and annex the good ones.
Keep in mind you get culture from capturing cities, which helps with the annexing you will be doing.

Autocracy is really nice for long games where you have more than standard AI as it can take a while to get through to everyone.
It obviously doesn't help with sub-150 turn games, but but then neither does Order.

Seriously, for domination victory, Honor is much worse than Autocracy (and Order) in late game and Liberty is much better than Honor in early game.
My opinion (and also fact to be honest).

Yep, go Liberty + Autocracy; great combo.
I'd jump into Patronage/Honor/maybe Commerce in between until you hit Industrial.


So to compare two:
Order opener gives +1 happiness/city. Nice
United front, largely useless unless you are spending your gold on Militaristic CS...and why you would, when you could spend it to buy your own units.
Nationalism, largely useless as in domination you are going offense, not defense.
Planned Economy, quite nice, but many smaller cities won't likely get around to, or benefit from, building factories.
Socialism, not helpful for domination really.
Communism, nice, but probably too late to matter much.
Finisher is fine, but you'll never get there.

The other thing is that is tends to be easier to finish Autocracy due to pillaged culture, whereas finishing Order is nearly impossible unless you seriously delay the game.


Autocracy opener = 33% less unit maintenance cost is huge gold saving
Militarism, cheaper rush-bought units, again, very useful
Police State allows for annexing good cities to boost happiness, quite useful (in moderation obviously). Spy crap, who cares.
Populism adds more damage when attacking with units already hurt. Every little bit helps.
Fascism is nice for selling excess resources, or boosting what you have if you don't have enough.
Total War comes a bit too late to matter much, but it's huge if you are still building units.
Finisher is icing on the cake.
Crazy nice to have +25% attack bonus to finish off any remaining obstacles.


In a domination game, there is absolutely no way Order is a better tree UNLESS you going to finish the game with only one policy in the tree...and frankly if that's the case, it does not matter at all as the game is obviously long over anyway.

If you are going a few policies into the tree, Autocracy is far superior, and only gets better the farther you go into it.


The real issue is that frankly, in many games neither tree will really matter, as they come too late to provide a huge boost.

BTW, i did a rather fun game where i finished Autocracy AND Honor.
I did Liberty, then most of Honor, then finished Autocracy, and then finished Honor.
My game writeup: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=484235

 

[Unresolved]

Very debatable. +3 happiness per courthouse from Autocracy is arguably better. That lets you annex good cities and quickly build courthouses, allowing you to use those cities to produce even more units/science/etc.

When I play domination(on Immortal and lower), I don't annex many cities. I generally don't need to produce many units and my science is usually done by the time I reach Autocracy/Order. Money isn't an issue in domination games(except early archipelago maps) and my culture likely won't be high enough to reach the +3 happiness from courthouses.

 

[sendos]

Very debatable. +3 happiness per courthouse from Autocracy is arguably better. That lets you annex good cities and quickly build courthouses, allowing you to use those cities to produce even more units/science/etc.

By good cities, I assume you mean cities initially with around 20-30 pop, usually capital cities. Annexing them usually costs 10-15 happiness. That is enough to reduce the effectiveness of your soldiers.

What in the world do you need GEs for?
Rushing wonders? If you are planning to dominate the world, wonders are highly unnecessary.
There is really no way to say Order is better than Autocracy for domination as it really isn't.

Tiling them. Then you don't need to spend money on units. You could build them in your best cities within 1-2 turns. 100 production in a city really helps.

Honestly, other than the National College, NONE of the national wonders are must-builds.
Domination game, remember?
You don't need to annex every city.
Raze the crap ones, puppet the okay ones, and annex the good ones.
Keep in mind you get culture from capturing cities, which helps with the annexing you will be doing.

Heroic epic is also quite useful if you're aiming for a domination victory. And the culture you gain from annexing cities is relatively small anyway.

Yep, go Liberty + Autocracy; great combo.
I'd jump into Patronage/Honor/maybe Commerce in between until you hit Industrial.

Liberty + order is also an excellent combo. If you have the trade route setup, that's +2 happiness per city. It is all a matter of choice.

So to compare two:
Order opener gives +1 happiness/city. Nice
United front, largely useless unless you are spending your gold on Militaristic CS...and why you would, when you could spend it to buy your own units.
Nationalism, largely useless as in domination you are going offense, not defense.
Planned Economy, quite nice, but many smaller cities won't likely get around to, or benefit from, building factories.
Socialism, not helpful for domination really.
Communism, nice, but probably too late to matter much.
Finisher is fine, but you'll never get there.

The other thing is that is tends to be easier to finish Autocracy due to pillaged culture, whereas finishing Order is nearly impossible unless you seriously delay the game.

You underestimate united front and nationalism. If you have say 3 allied militaristic CS' that's 3 units every 6-8 turns. In my games I like to passively build up my armies with the help of militaristic CS'. Furthermore, in G&K, they offer UU's as well. Don't assume that your enemy won't put up a fight. In any game with Prince difficulty or higher, there will be at least one runaway civ. Nationalism provides that defensive emergency whenever the enemy launches a counter-attack. On the other points, I would agree with you to some extent.

Autocracy opener = 33% less unit maintenance cost is huge gold saving
Militarism, cheaper rush-bought units, again, very useful
Police State allows for annexing good cities to boost happiness, quite useful (in moderation obviously). Spy crap, who cares.
Populism adds more damage when attacking with units already hurt. Every little bit helps.
Fascism is nice for selling excess resources, or boosting what you have if you don't have enough.
Total War comes a bit too late to matter much, but it's huge if you are still building units.
Finisher is icing on the cake.
Crazy nice to have +25% attack bonus to finish off any remaining obstacles.

I don't know if it is just me but I never really see the populism benefits. What constitutes a wounded unit exactly? Any unit without full health? Half health? Is it supposed to be shown on the combat details when attacking?

Again with police state, the huge amounts of unhappiness on annexing a good city would be enormous. The +3 happiness might be enough to keep the unhappiness above -20 but then that leaves the problem of production and combat penalty. I would also recommend a religion with strong focus on happiness, as well as getting the happiness wonders, like Notre Dame. Otherwise, the autocracy finisher is simply designed to neutralize the combat penalty. It would also be hard to achieve because every good city you annex would mean having to get 500 or so more culture to level up and get a new policy.

In a domination game, there is absolutely no way Order is a better tree UNLESS you going to finish the game with only one policy in the tree...and frankly if that's the case, it does not matter at all as the game is obviously long over anyway.

If you are going a few policies into the tree, Autocracy is far superior, and only gets better the farther you go into it.

You assume all domination players have the same method. Some follow your method, others choose to puppet all okay and good cities to quickly acquire policies, which is usually my method. I tend to rely mostly on order if I already have a large empire. Choosing Autocracy is ok at any time, with a large or small empire. In my opinion, it is best to choose it if you already have a huge army but your empire is only a moderate size. I also believe you underestimate happiness issues when looking for a domination victory. It's not so much a problem for small sized games but it is for larger sized games. 0 to -9 happiness might not matter a lot, but anywhere below that will make a big difference. Then again, the order happiness boost is often a quick fix problem to happiness as soon the happiness declines from capturing cities and growth.

For annexing cities with autocracy, I recommend gradually doing so as soon as you acquire the police state policy. It's best to generate enough culture to get the autocracy finisher as soon as possible.

 

[Ryoga]

You would actually jump into Honor when Autocracy is available ?!?

And what does Honor offer in late game?
Bonus against barbs? Useless
Bonus for adjacent melee units? Useless, you should use aircraft, ships and fast moving stuff like cavalry or tanks.
Happiness per city garrison? Fairly useless. You fight a war. You need your troops at the frontline.
Free general? Useless, you will have too many generals anyways.
More XP? With XP buildings and possibly Brandenburg Gate, you can produce units with 3 promotions each. You don't need more XP.
Happiness per wall etc.? It's ok but definately not worth picking the Honor tree.

Seriously, for domination victory, Honor is much worse than Autocracy (and Order) in late game and Liberty is much better than Honor in early game.
My opinion (and also fact to be honest).

You missed "just" the 4 happiness per city from maintenance free walls+castle+arsenal+military base which can become 5 per city with a unit (also maintenance free with the tradition policy).
Your claim that the latter it's useless makes no sense and contradicts your own statement that you don't need many melee units in late game. You don't need to garrison strong units in your cities, even an archer from ancient era will still give you the bonuses.

Honor is objectively the policy tree that gives you more happiness per city than any other tree. And since you are conquering happiness per city is the best happiness you can get.

Your claim that you don't need more than 3 promotions is also absolutely wrong. You don't get logistics with just that, and there's pretty good stuff even after, which I mentioned before.

Even Bombers with 3 upgrade you just get 2x siege and 1 repair (and there's no reason not to get repair first). To get to logistics you need another two promotions and you want to get them the fastest as possible.

Then you forgot the 33% discount in upgrading units, which becomes very costly from mid to late game.

Finally you missed the gold from the finisher, and if you think it's useless you likely never saw its effects late game.

 

[Strategist83]

Autocracy is extremely powerful and yet totally underestimated. The only reason you aren't finding it useful is you're playing the moronic AI. Against real opponents, the other trees don't even come close to the capacity for world conquest autocracy gives you.

 

[pilot00]

@sendos.

Pardon me if I am mistaken but some of your statements dont match with the current game in a domination victory. Sorry if this sounds aggressive/insulting I dont mean it as such.

The first thing that strikes me as as untrue is your statement of what constitutes a good city is pop >20>30. Two things on that matter: a)Where are you going to find such a city (even a capital) at the early game / mid even in some cases late game and b) you are playing domination, you don't need the pop you need the location. You don't annex based on science/culture/lux output in a domination victory, you annex based on city location. Not even production matters because if you made the (IMHO) right choice of honor/right side of commerce/autocracy and then somehow got/build Big ben (late to mid game all this OFC) all you need is cash to rush buy. The location of the annexed cities matter only if they are pivotal to reinforcing the front. I was forced once to annex a one tile island city to use it as an air and naval base which led me to dominate an entire continent. The city was useless in other respects.

Great engineers: You don't have the time and you certainly don't need to waste the effort on producing the buildings on a border city you just captured, that will eventually lead to GEs and you will need a ton of them to reach 100 hammers. In the same time an autocrat would have rush bought an army and steam rolled an entire empire. Even assuming that by choosing order you buy GE with faith, just how much faith will you be able to expend on building such a city? And even if you do, what happens when the front is pushed half a continent away?

Heroic Epic: We can agree its a must, but for the early game, Once the borders are pushed away the capitals only meaningful contribution to the war will be building planes and missiles (unless its coastal) and those don't get affected by it.

Liberty/Autocracy or Liberty/Order: Neither Tradition/Honor/Right side of commerce/ Rationalism/ Autocracy In all seriousness its a matter of how you play so there is no real answer.

United Front/Nationalism: I understand where you come from and I have exploited nationalism even on offense (when your units are on your borders even if attacking outside the border they get the bonus) but its weak/irrelevant in a true offensive operation. That brings us to populism. To answer your question a wounded unit constitutes any unit that has lost 1hp or more of its hp total. That means that if a barbarian brute takes one hp away from your tanks your tanks automatically gain the bonus, regardless of borders and what not. Clearly stronger than nationalism.
As to the CS, I rather not. If have them allied with quests perhaps, but spending my gold (around 3000+ on allying all three) and depend on their random offerings....Just no, I prefer to rush buy something 100% useful. Also there is no telling when a coup will strike, and you need to invest a whole policy on it. Its just no. If you play a semi-peaceful game (big rush to gain puppets and then another type of vic) then yes.

On the happiness issue: Thats one of the reason as to why you choose honor. Also don't forget that when the empire starts to border unhappy status the puppets immediately switch to happiness buildings. You don't need to build wonders, you need to steal them Most of your puppets are going to be stunted with trading posts anyway so growth wont be a problem.

Also I will stress it again and I will keep screaming till my lungs fall off: Domination is the fastest way to a cultural victory when paired with honor.

 

[Ryoga]

Autocracy is extremely powerful and yet totally underestimated. The only reason you aren't finding it useful is you're playing the moronic AI. Against real opponents, the other trees don't even come close to the capacity for world conquest autocracy gives you.

Well yes, admittedly the reason I don't think Autocracy is so good is because it mainly allows you to have a larger army, whereas a larger army is mostly unnecessary against the AI considering that you can send all your units to the front and not having any significant army to defend your cities.

I think I have provided enough argument though that when it comes to better happiness options to keep your conquest going, honor wins, and when it comes to stronger more effective units, honor still wins.

Autocracy still has some very good policies, particularly the opener and militarism, but I'd rather complete the honor tree and I think that Order complements Honor better than Autocracy does especially happiness wise, with the first ensuring that you'll never have unhappiness from population and the second reducing the happiness per city. The reduced cost on building maintenance economically speaking works more or less the same as the reduced cost on unit maintenance.

While Order gives you a science boost, Autocracy gives none on that respect.

Of course the remaining policies of Order suck for conquering strategies, but you don't need to complete the tree.

 

[dukedike]

Guys I didn't expect the debate are going far to this point but thank all of your comment. I got many new perspective of this two SPs especial for Autocracy.
Actually, I just want to get the idea that what should I really have to adopt in my playing game.
It's my first trying to beat domination in deity ( I found It's easy for me to beat dom in Immortal so I go for order all times for instantly happiness and didn't care how autocracy work)
Could you tell me what is the more proper for my game?
Here is my situation: As mongolian, Pangaea, all standard.
turn 206, I got the Aztec, Chinese and egypt Caps they have every wonders I need except Bigben.( I know it's in some where in egypt but I didn't got that city) I have a chance to adopt Order or Autocracy and I choose Order for , again, happiness reason.( I try autocracy and reloaded and found that my culture point doesn't increase so It meant to be +10 culture for 1 city I capture after I adopt Autocracy, right?) I'm war with the Huns. Alex is the runaway civ they got London and will got Gao in next few turns.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

And in turn 210. I make peace with the Huns (but they still got their cap I just want to clean out my last opponent city in my territory) So I plan next DoW to Alex but what I see is he is too strong for me he got about 25+ aircraft and I just have 10 arritery.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

and look at military greatness I'm second Alex is the first but It's different about 300,000. He's got flight and may can built antiaircraft gun now. I still haven't reach biology yet.

Spoiler :

So, seriously, I think the policies that I choose is the important factor - Autocracy or order -It's just not a decoration I rethink now and want to reload turn 206 to choose autocracy, good idea?

 

[ense7en]

Can't get your pics to load so tough to say

But you mention Alex has flight...you will almost certainly need flight, as going in with artillery against planes will be brutal, unless you can somehow sneak right beside his cap and capture extremely quickly.
Otherwise you're going to get screwed.

 

[dukedike]

Can't get your pics to load so tough to say

But you mention Alex has flight...you will almost certainly need flight, as going in with artillery against planes will be brutal, unless you can somehow sneak right beside his cap and capture extremely quickly.
Otherwise you're going to get screwed.

Why can't you get my pics. I can see them myself in the forum.
I know that I have to reach flight ASAP but who know at this time Alex can go for the bommer I have no idea why he is so far runaway

 

[pilot00]

Why can't you get my pics. I can see them myself in the forum.
I know that I have to reach flight ASAP but who know at this time Alex can go for the bommer I have no idea why he is so far runaway

Neither I can for that matter. ProbaBLY gobled up a few other civs and has alliances with city states.