OSG 13 - Today is a Good Day to Die

[Liquidated]

ug yeah liq is mia trying to get dosbox stable on new pc

meh

allow a liq a swap please gonna reinstall everything which is never fun.

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[IamI3rian]

Halfway through my turns, I'll finsh tomorrow (17th) sorry for the delay.

Lookie that, almost 12 hours exactly

 

[IamI3rian]

How very interesting. First, I took the liberty of deciding to shorten the turns taken to 10. Seemed mine lasted long enough.

Preturn: Send all lasers at Rhilus to Xengara (fertile nebula bound 105) to 'Hold' it til Next Colship is built. Send one LR LASER from Exis to NE red Star to scout (Which I later learn is a Meklar colony Phyco). I notice that Fieras will build the next colship in 3 turns, so I divert the one going to Rha up to Xengara.

2361: Turn Eco at Thrax to +1 pop. +2 Seems a bit of a waste

2362: Next Turn

2363: Settled Exis. Contact with Ruthless Diplomat Meklars?!?! That could get messy with their excellent computer tech. They clearly had an alliance with someone to settle their easternmost colony. Took screenie of the map. I still don't see HOW we got Exis from the Meks. They can clearly reach it, and it's much closer to them then it is to us. Better to be lucky and all that Send Colship from Fieras to Rha. Send 20 Colonists to Exis. Start trade with the Meks at 75 BC's a year. Send out scouts.

2364: Scouted Phyco. Meks had 2 colships there, Arrid 65 at 50 pop 47 facts. Continue scouting

2365: Scout gets to meklon. Pop 96, 400 Facts 14 Missile bases. and 1 large warship (jax FWIW) and another colship

2366: Meks 'attack' Exis with an unarmed colship. Scouts get to crypto SE of Exis Hostile Toxic 20. Continue Scouting, try to up the trade with the sillys. They can only handle 75 BC's a year. Not worth it.

2367: Scouts get to Tauri. No planets. Fierras finishes Colship 2 turns early, and is set to research. 3% RIW80, ECMI is almost a full bulb

2368: Humans are east of Meklon. Sol 100 Pop 200 Facts. 4 Colships, 5 Mediums Defend. Scout Kakata NE of Xengara Hostile Tundra 20.

GNN announcement Major Industrial Accident!!! It's ok though, it's on Sol. Poor Humans. RIW80 10% ECM 5%

2369: North of Sol are Klackons! Kholdan Pop 39 200 Facts. 2 Large ships and 21 fighters with 7 missile bases. Colonize Xengara and Rha. GNN announces that Sol is cleaned up. Contact with Klacks Trade set to a measley 25BC's a year. Erratic Technologists eh? Send 20 Million Colonists from Thrax to Xengara. Colship sent out to Talas. Continue Scouting

2370: ECM Jammer comes in, as does RIW80%. ECM mark II and IRCIII are the options. I go for robotic control. Improved industrial Tech 8 is the only choice for construction.

Summary: Managed to get 3 more planets, and one more on the way out. Next Ruler needs to work on sending out colonists to Rha, and Talas, when it's settled. Also, we're starting to get to the point where expansion is done with. Still no sign of the Psilons, which is almost NEVER a good thing. I've attached a copy of the map at 2370, for those of us who would like to see that. Might be a good idea to get Imp Ind Tech 8 Before anything else. I didn't fuss with the tech sliders at all, I leave that to the next emperor.

P.S. I STILL can't manage to upload useful pics, as those are too small. Oh well, it happens.

 

[dathon78]

Got it... blah blah message too short...

 

[dathon78]

And now for the fastest turn around in SG history...

Took Fierias off of research, leaving only the Poor. This wasn't enough muscle for IIT8, so I finished off Class II and Gats, choosing Hyper-X over Fusion Bombs and Ion Cannon, and getting saddled with Class III. Research is back whole hog into IIT8 now that Fierias can devote some to research.

Settled the desert world, colonists on the way to it and Rha.

Built some fighters for Xengara (13 was NOT going to cut it, and we can't afford to lose that world to the rocks), a col ship for the southern Barren world, and the last col ship for the Tundra NE of Xengara is in progress. That's probably a pipe dream, but what the heck, we did land Exis, so who knows.

Found Sol East of Meklon, and Mentar in the closest yellow in the NE corner. Those Psilons have some room to expand, assuming there's any good real estate up there, though the blue next to their homeworld is radiated. Relations are climbing steadily, and the neurotic bugs have everybody in the east distracted, so we have a bit of breathing room there, but just a bit. Looks like we weren't the only ones screwed in the land lottery.

Next emperor will want to think about fortifying Exis, and starting us out of the tech hole. Looks like this might not be as hard as I thought. If those Psilons get some territory going in the corner though...

dathon

Roster:
dathon --> played
Stup --> UP NOW
Zed --> on deck
Olorin
Liq
Iam3Irian

 

[StuporMan]

You managed to download and play a turnset in under 45 minutes from it being posted. Next time don't take so long

At any rate I have the save, but am unable to look at it until tomorrow (no I can't try and get a turnset up in under an hour like dathon, and with the mistakes I make taking much longer you would not want me to).

StuporMan

 

[IamI3rian]

Nicely done dathon, good idea on defending Xengara. I think you made the right choice on getting gats out of the way. Those Hyper-X's are gonna come in handy for defense soon, I figure.

We had a great tech selection too, all the good early techs were available. Anyway, the real reason for this post is to ask about the GNN event I got. Does that leave Sol radiated? If so, that might've been a good thing for the humans, as they can't be invaded for a while. Unless of course that ALSO leaves Sol hostile. Either way, I'm glad it wasn't Fierias

Edit: I also noticed that we can cram a shield and a computer onto the same design we are using for fighters. Puts the cost up from 11 to 18 though. Is that worth it? We can scrap the scouts (the two we start with) or the normal colony ship to make room for them.

 

[Zed-F]

Yep, Sol is now Radiated. It can be cleaned up with Atmospheric Terraforming and will actually get larger than it started out as if it is.

IamI3ian, I noticed you didn't trade with Silicoids... was that a first contact thing? We've found over the last several SGs that the best trade agreement is the one for 25BC/year. The money isn't important, since it takes so long for trade agreements to become profitable anyway and the AI is prone to breaking them as your empire expands unless you exercise enemy-of-my-enemy diplomacy. What is important is the relations boost trading gives, and a minimal trade agreement is helpful in that regard. Dathon mentioned relations climbing steadily, so hopefully we do have a 25BC/turn agreement with them we can keep going.

As far as redesigning a laser boat, I wouldn't bother until we can fit a better weapon on them. Definitely not the computer since we are kitties and have ample innate gunnery. Computers and shields are expensive without significant miniaturization, and shield I is good for blunting lasers a bit but not much else; if the enemy has better weapons than lasers, you might as well not bother and just pump out more hulls for the same money. (This gives you more offense and more defense, as opposed to just one or the other.)

 

[dathon78]

You managed to download and play a turnset in under 45 minutes from it being posted. Next time don't take so long

Sometimes the stars align just right Had some down time, which is why I was checking here in the first place, then thought, "yeah, it's the beginning, not a lot going on, I can do this!" It's funnier because I'm usually the one delaying when my turn is up

so hopefully we do have a 25BC/turn agreement with them we can keep going.

When I inherited the turns, we had trade agreements with all races in contact . Not minimum in all cases, so they are costing us, but they are there Bugs are their usual erratic selves, though, so we'll probably end up fighting them at some point. Good news there is that they are already into it with the Meklars and Humans.

dathon

 

[StuporMan]

Silicoids decided to probe our defenses. Chased away an unescorted Colship from the Tundra in the NE, it did not try to fight indicating they are still lacking weapons on the current design. They also appear to be sending ships at > 5 parsecs. They may have fuel reserves on board. You may notice we have ships moving between Xengara and Kakata (NE Tundra), this is due to shuffling laser ships to take out the Colony ship I saw inbound. Forunately, I had decided to send a few earlier to help hold that planet. Xengara has enough production to pump lasers should we need it, but should be left pumping industry if we can let it. Also note, Xengara should always be defended by ships not just missile bases, since the Nebula negates all shielding (I have made that mistake before and it is not pretty). In my pentultimate turn, we chase the unescorted rock ship away from Simius (ultra rich toxic) further confirming that they are unarmed (I send a few lasers to defend just in case). We need to be sure not to lose the two Ultra rich planets near us to the Rocks, as this would not only give them access to our entire core, but also good planets with high production values.

After We settled Xendalla (South Tundra) I noticed we could design a Long Range Colony ship to get Aurora (Steppe 50 Poor) to the SE. Since we are so close to getting a tech at this point (25%), I leave this to our next leader.

Pretty boring turnset, aside from the probes from the rocks. We have a new planet and some more industry all over. Don't forget about the Dead colony headed to Xengara and due next turn. At this point it looks like Kakata is ours for the taking, and should put us in contact with the Brains.

I have shifted around production to balance research and industry a bit as we started getting 6 or more factories per turn on a planet, we can't fall too far behind the rocks or we will appear an easy target. Next leader feel free to change that at your discretion.

I have also sent an updated map as I ran across a Psilon colony in the far NE.

Stup

 

[IamI3rian]

Yeah, we had 50 BC/year going with the 'coids. I was merely looking to upgrade it a bit. At only 75 BC/year, it wasn't worth it. 100+ and I think I woulda gone for it, as it should have matured almost fully by the now. At least I hope so anyway, the whole trading formula makes my brain bleed. I thought I read somewhere that as a rough estimate it takes about 10 turns before it starts turning a profit, and about 10 more til it's at full effect. I don't remember though, if that only applies to new trades, or upgraded ones. Or both maybe.

I heartily second the idea of defending those UR planets in our first ring. Much better for no one to have them, then for the 'coids to get their grubby rocksicles on them.

The reason I was curious about the fighter design is because I'm a bit nervous about having only popguns to defend.

One more thing on the industrial accident. That reduces the population by half right? So Sol is now a pretty small planet? Does that still leave the factories intact? Poor poor Humans. They just can't catch a break.

My biggest request though, is a spy or two in the enemy empires. I'd probably feel better knowing that the rocks and the bugs don't have anything much better than we do.

 

[vmxa]

If you increase a trade, it will set the scale back towards the negative side a bit (porportional).

The formula for growth is d200 roll + your current relations value with partner + 25 this results is divided by 60. The chance of an increase is -1% to +5% per turn.

 

[Zed-F]

Ok, I have the savefile, but can't play tonight.

 

[IamI3rian]

Thanks again vmxa, I always appreciate your help. Only thing is though, what's the number that your current relations value corresponds to? Is it from 0-12(ish) based on the colour levels? That would seem to make sense.

You say this result is divided by 60, but then what happens with the final number? Or, maybe I mean to ask what exactly that number calculates? ::brain bleeds::

Also, I assume the chance is cumulative, as -1% would indicate, thus, I wonder if it resets if the trade value increases, and by how much ( a percentage of the increase perhaps?) that it does increase.

Is this all in the strat guide? I think I'm gonna grab a copy from Ebay, if it is. Thanks alot for your help

 

[dathon78]

IIRC, relations are on a scale of 0 - 100; that's how many "clicks" there are on the relations bar.

EVERYTHING is in that strat guide, so it would definitely be worthwhile to pick up if you want to understand the game better.

My general rule of thumb for trade is to start trade at minimal with everybody at the earliest opportunity, and only raise it if:

1)My partner can support doubling or better our current agreement
2)I have no intention of attacking this race for awhile
3)I don't think that they have any intention of attacking ME for quite awhile.

dathon

 

[vmxa]

Yes it is straight from the guide. Unfortunetly my scanner crapped out or I could scan in some of the info. It is very complex.

The amount of trade establish runs from -30 to 100 (max profit percentage). The -30% is the cost of start up. This is applied to any increase in the trade. So you will suffer that hit for adding more.

It is offset by any current profitability you may have. So 75BC gets -30% of that or -22BC. Then the d200 is rolled to get a number. That is used to add to your current relationship. EX: you are -20 for unease. It is then your roll, say 140, it is then 140 -20 +25 = 145/60 for 2.4, which rounds down to 2.

That is what you profit percent will be that turn. That means you would be at -28 that turn, from the -30 start point. There is a table that shows the expectations based on your relationship.

When increasing the current trade you take that -30 hit, but it calculates the current route as well and its profit will be offset by the new figures loss, so the hit is less.

EX: 100bc making +8, bump 50. The +8% is avg with the -30 and the size of the 100 is twice that of the 50 so the effect is the 100 now become +16 and added to the -30 it becomes -14.

Thisis divided by 3 for the 1/3 sized 50 trade and the new avg profit is now -4.6, rounded to -4. So the new trade of 150 is now -4% or -6BC.

Very complex as you can see. So the increase or even decrease is going to be affected by the relation. Harmony would expect to do +2 to +5 about 30% of the time, but a Feud would have about 60% of 0 and only 30% at +1, no shot of more than +2.

 

[StuporMan]

While we are talking about game mechanics already. I have noticed that secondary characteristics on opponents often seem to indicate a bonus to that area of research in terms of available tech options in the related category and possibly in reduction of tech costs.

It is known that certain races get bonuses and or penalties to certain research categories, but these seem to be different than that. For example, the Meklar have an inherent weakness in Planetology, but a Meklar with an Ecologist trait seem to get better/more choices in the planetology field. Or the Klackons getting very good choices in Propulsion even though they are poor in the field if their leader has the Expansionist trait.

This is difficult to quantify as the traits also seem to affect tech priorities and resource allocation, but it seems to be even more exaggerated than that. (IE a non-runaway Meklar leading in the Planetology category). I have only empirical data supporting this theory at this point, but it would help explain those times when you pick a race and have excellent selections in the categories they are supposed to be bad at (I also believe traits are rolled for the player).

Does anyone else have hard info on this theory or have noticed this effect before?

StuporMan

 

[IamI3rian]

Thanks vmxa, that happened to make quite a bit of sense to me. Helpful that guide is. I think I will definitely have to pick up a copy. dathon also brings up a good point, as I figure that the 'coids are our first target, so increasing the trade might not have been the best idea even if it doubled.

As for Stup's observations, I've got very little to add. Never occured to me that traits would be more than just decision making differences. I've also played less than 20 games so far, so I'm not exactly a treasure trove of observations.

As far as rolling traits up for the player, if they affect nothing but Role Playing choices then it would be a moot piont. If however, there ARE more tech choices, or better ones then I would be VERY interested in seeing how they affect the player's tech trees.

As for 'better' choices, this seems VERY viable as there are plenty of techs worth more to the AI than their tech level would indicate. Inertial stablizers for example. Unfortunately, the best way to study this would seem to me to be to take a peep at the code, something I can't do.

 

[vmxa]

I think that there is no such thing as personality traits and the Limited Research List. It is not mentioned any place in the guide, so to me it does not exist.

The list is not even impacted by the Racial traits, let alone any personality such as being Xeno. The list is generated at the time the universe is created. The leaders can change personalities and can even be replaced.

It sounds good, but it is not correct.

 

[IamI3rian]

Well, I trust vmxa's answer, even if he is a Klackon. The only explanation I can offer is that it only seems that way from the increased funding the trait causes. He adds a compelling arguement with the fact that leaders can be replaced.

Would be nice though. Add a bit more depth to the game. Incidentally vxma, how come you don't take part in the OSG's?