[NFP] Owls of Minerva only roll on first envoy or subsequent?

[Ash plays civ]

In my current game I have sent 20 envoys to 3 city states(plus 1 more to a city state I conquered) but I still don't have the Owls in renaissance. I do have 2 of the other societies open as an option(Sanguine and Hermetic)

So did the roll happen 4 times or 21 times? What are the odds? Is there is a limit to how late you can get one?

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Personally not sure, but I did notice recently that when I pumped a ton of envoys into a CS to snag suzerainty, I did get the invite (I had, like you, about 20 envoys at that point spread out on different city states).

Somewhat unrelated:
This invite RNG is the main issue (apart from balance) that I really dislike about the SS mode.
Get all invites early and you likely have an easy early game, don't get invites (or the one you really need) and you're boned.
SS mode is otherwise really cool, but they really need to make these invites more consistent and less about RNG.
Their impact on the early game is far too great to let it be up to RNG (I'd say the impact is even greater than getting a relic from a goody hut on turn 4, and that's saying something since I usually see an early relic as "hitting the jackpot").

 

[Ash plays civ]

Personally not sure, but I did notice recently that when I pumped a ton of envoys into a CS to snag suzerainty, I did get the invite (I had, like you, about 20 envoys at that point spread out on different city states).

Was that the very first time you put envoys into that CS? Starting from zero? Or did you have envoys in there previously?

 

[racha]

IIRC, there's an 80% chance each time you do the ~thing~ to trigger any particular secret society. If you look in the gameplay database under the SecretSocieties table, there's a separate column for each society (named according to the action required to discover them) showing the exact percentage change. For Owls, you'll want to mod that table to make DiscoverAtCityStateBaseChance = 100 if you want to guarantee success on your first envoy.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

For Owls, you'll want to mod that table to make DiscoverAtCityStateBaseChance = 100 if you want to guarantee success on your first envoy.

Even at 100 you won't have a 100% chance of discovery, as there are other "hidden" modifiers that can alter it.

 

[Vargas1]

My understanding (probably secondhand from this forum) is that each time you do the trigger for a SS, you have a chance of getting the invite, but that the percentage chance goes down based on how many other civs have gotten the invite. So the later in the game it goes, the less likely you are generally to get the invite.

 

[Ash plays civ]

IIRC, there's an 80% chance each time you do the ~thing~ to trigger any particular secret society. If you look in the gameplay database under the SecretSocieties table, there's a separate column for each society (named according to the action required to discover them) showing the exact percentage change. For Owls, you'll want to mod that table to make DiscoverAtCityStateBaseChance = 100 if you want to guarantee success on your first envoy.

That's what the wiki says but I don't think it is accurate. Rolling negative 21 times straight with an 80% chance seems astronomically unlikely.

If it only takes a roll on the very first envoy, that would make more sense because missing an 80% roll four times(once for each city state I encountered) seems more possible. That's why I ask if anyone knows whether this is case, because then I can focus on finding more city states in my world.

 

[Pfeffersack]

My understanding (probably secondhand from this forum) is that each time you do the trigger for a SS, you have a chance of getting the invite, but that the percentage chance goes down based on how many other civs have gotten the invite. So the later in the game it goes, the less likely you are generally to get the invite.

This might be true for the "invitation by trigger event", but you still have the chance to receive one by having secret diplomatic visibility on a member.

 

[Palo]

I'm virtually certain it's only on the first envoy earned or sent to a CS. I do not recall ever receiving an Owls invite for anything besides the first envoy at a CS.

 

[cain3456]

This is correct. Only if you have not previously had an envoy with that city state will it possibly trigger the Owls.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

It actually doesn't matter which SS you pick.
Moderator Action: It does to the OP and to other people who don't play in the highly optimised way you like, posting like this is regarded as trolling --NZ
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

As nearly all of them start to shine only in the Medieval era.

But under SS mode you get Magnus' black marketeer much quicker, therefore you can do much earlier horseman rush.

 

[Equilin]

I got mine in Georgia game after 4-5 CS first-meets, so it's definitely not just the first

 

[Karmah]

It's the first per city state ? So if you send 20 to a single or a couple of it , you just rolled once (or twice) ?

 

[Linklite]

That's what the wiki says but I don't think it is accurate. Rolling negative 21 times straight with an 80% chance seems astronomically unlikely.

It's a little under 1%, so definitely people here would have experienced it, and if you are a big player of Civ, it's not unlikely to happen to you. I know it still sucks, but it's still not a massively unlikely think to happen.

 

[c4c6]

But under SS mode you get Magnus' black marketeer much quicker, therefore you can do much earlier horseman rush.

I'd expect, you dislike the exploitative GovTitles ... anyway, how would you "use" the extra 4 in order to make them most inefficient? (as a HouseRule)

 

[Datian]

I'd expect, you dislike the exploitative GovTitles ... anyway, how would you "use" the extra 4 in order to make them most inefficient? (as a HouseRule)

Grant them to governors you won't use and don't affect them until you have four spare titles ?

 

[c4c6]

Grant them to governors you won't use and don't affect them until you have four spare titles ?

Yeah, something to such an effect. It is a bit inelegant, because you have to mind not infringing mistakenly - still better than just ignoring / not using those titles all the game long.

I was curious, what Lily_Lancer has to say on that topic, because he has an fantastic overview of ALL the details of the game and their impact, especially in context of efficiency ...

Probably I'll add a dummy governor, who does nothing but absorbing the excess. Still clumsy. Maybe all 4 titles to Moksha for Divine Architect, which seems not very useful in the beginning?

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