PATCH: 1.52 - huge map - game is unplayable: save included

[Kristof73]

I am playing on Deity on huge map - 16 civs. Game in middle game is totally unplayable. Scrolling is fast. But response of touched units is about 15 - 30 seconds. My last round was about 3 hours becouse that. And I see now this does not depend on speed of my computer. 3 round earlier game was very fast. But suddenly slower to not playable level. After 2 rounds (3 long hours of crucifying) was speeded to normal level. 2 rounds later and again big pain. . So I realised - this is the end ot the game. PLEASE load the SAVE. What a SUPERCOMPUTER it is NESESSARY to have to PLAY this GAME to the end on huge map ??? Maybe some of you had better systems then I. (so much greater then teoretically games demands). For this GAME firs I bought 512 MB RAM - very slow, then 512 RAM - game faster but ofter crashes and again 512 MB RAM to 1,5 GB. Now - there is no crashes at all. I overclocked my processor from 2500+ to 3500+. No changes at all with units response.

This is my zip packed SAVE: http://kristof734.webpark.pl/save.zip from 1883 year - 1400 kB. Very funny you can attache to this forum file not bigger then 500 kB It are wanted to laugh me becouse save from 280 AD it's bigger - 700 kB.

Conclusion: THIS GAME IS BROKEN - not my system. Somebody maybe told me - too much units, too large map. FALSE - 2 rounds earlies with the same amount of unit and visible terrain was very fast. But ..... this mayby funny - slowed when I saw Saladin's stack of 70 ships with 50 units and 15 planes.
Goes fast exactly when he declared war. Now is slow again - mayby samone planned a new war ..... Someone maybe told me -- you must change something in your system. But see below:

My system:

Hardware:
- AMD 64 Sempron 2500+ tuned to 3500+ (overclocked from 1400 GHz to 2000 GHz)
- 1,5 GB RAM DDR 400
- Geforce 6600 128 MB (400/500 - overclocked to 430/600)

System:
- Windows XP with all available patches from Microsoft
- 2 GB of Swap in one piece
- Direct X - December 2005
- Newest drivers to everything (mainboard, graphic card, sound card - etc)

Civilization IV:
- patch 1.52
- all options changed to low
- video card options - the same (tuned to speed)
- no programs running in background
- all not used system services turned off
- antivirus software turned off
- 128 AGP memory in BIOS
- optimised values in civilization.ini file
- and so on - so on

Please someone who had a much better computer then I have told me how it's running on your system. So many words on this forum about optymalization, computer speeds - but all words without proof and game speed testing are useless.

Kristof - Poland
sorry for my irregular English

 

[Zydor]

Lots of OC to high levels, have you checked heating/temp/overheating ?

Whats your power supply - the make, model number and rating ?

Regards
Zy

 

[alexti2]

I am playing on Deity on huge map - 16 civs. Game in middle game is totally unplayable. Scrolling is fast. But response of touched units is about 15 - 30 seconds. My last round was about 3 hours becouse that. And I see now this does not depend on speed of my computer. 3 round earlier game was very fast. But suddenly slower to not playable level. After 2 rounds (3 long hours of crucifying) was speeded to normal level. 2 rounds later and again big pain.

Yeah, that's quite common. I've seen it (also on Deity - not sure if it matters) that suddenly unit response becomes very slow and it may last for few turns. After that it may go back to more or less normal (it never really fast in later game, but at least not 15-20 seconds, like in those occurences). It's probably just intermittent bugs in the code (or not so intermittent - maybe they're just triggered by particular actions). The best way to deal with it is to order a new computer with Luck+3.

 

[Akhenaton]

The best way to deal with it is to order a new computer with Luck+3.

Considering how expensive those are in terms of mana, it's probably more productive to file a bug report with 2K Games, sending them the save which triggers the slow down (with full CivIV logs and .ini, + the mandatory reports just to assure them that it's not a HW problem).

 

[Kristof73]

The game after OC is faster. System is stable. Temperature of processor and mainboard are low - 30/25 C degrees. Video I don't know, but system never hung up's. OC which I made is done according to descriptions from internet.
AMD 64 Sempron 2500+ has a very low factory temperature.

Lots of OC to high levels, have you checked heating/temp/overheating ?

Whats your power supply - the make, model number and rating ?

Regards
Zy

 

[Kristof73]

After shift+Enter (skip to next turn) - game is running normally. Curious on how long? But I have to end this turn. Probably it takes to me one hour or more. I'll send this save to Firaxis.

Considering how expensive those are in terms of mana, it's probably more productive to file a bug report with 2K Games, sending them the save which triggers the slow down (with full CivIV logs and .ini, + the mandatory reports just to assure them that it's not a HW problem).

 

[Kristof73]

Hmm - maybe someone of you know where I have to send this problem ....
Support mails from http://www.2kgames.com/index.php?p=support_contact
don't want receive my mails - maybe becouse I'm abroad of US and Canada ...

For US Support
Phone: 1-866-219-9839
Email: usa@take2support.com

For Canadian Support
Phone: 1-800-638-0127
Email: canada@take2support.com

 

[alexti2]

Considering how expensive those are in terms of mana, it's probably more productive to file a bug report with 2K Games, sending them the save which triggers the slow down (with full CivIV logs and .ini, + the mandatory reports just to assure them that it's not a HW problem).

They're aware of the problem. They've made some fixes in 1.52, but apparently some of the bugs are still in the wild.

 

[Akhenaton]

They're aware of the problem. They've made some fixes in 1.52, but apparently some of the bugs are still in the wild.

I'm not so sure they are aware of all of the serious performance and stability issues, since there are so many of them affecting wide range of HW. Even if they are aware of each and every one of them, it still helps a lot if each player facing these issues takes the time to file a bug report. It puts pressure on Firaxis to divert resources to fixing these most serious problems first instead of devoting it to new features or completely different projects. If Firaxis doesn't want bug reports to gauge the extent of certain well known problem, they can easily arrange that by publishing release notes or a todo list which enumerates the known issues and the progress made in their repair.

Just complaining about it in some forum which the devs skim over a few times a month if even that just won't have the same effect. The management is not likely to care about anything that doesn't clog the support department, which has to be paid to do their work.

 

[Kristof73]

Today I read a lot of posts on many internet forums about this problem.
This is a bug in coding. For example on my system i still 350 MB RAM and 40 MB RAM of Memory. But processor is 100 % busy all the time. And there is some common errors in logs reported by other users too. (the same errors).
And when they occured there are mistakes in graphic and sound too.
New game is almost flying after all OC I have done - until modern era.
I even found cuted on almost on 4 in size original game textures. (same of them form 260 kb -> 60 kB).

- Moderator Action: SD Low Res Textures: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144459

The game has a problem with programming. People which have even 3 GB of RAM and state of the art computers had the same problems.

In my last game it has enough, that I will fly aircraft exactly to one point on the map and game became freezed. Almost 1 minute unit's reaction on single mouse click. In order to playing normal You had to bypass this "freezing point" on the map.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[alexti2]

I'm not so sure they are aware of all of the serious performance and stability issues, since there are so many of them affecting wide range of HW. Even if they are aware of each and every one of them, it still helps a lot if each player facing these issues takes the time to file a bug report. It puts pressure on Firaxis to divert resources to fixing these most serious problems first instead of devoting it to new features or completely different projects. If Firaxis doesn't want bug reports to gauge the extent of certain well known problem, they can easily arrange that by publishing release notes or a todo list which enumerates the known issues and the progress made in their repair.

Just complaining about it in some forum which the devs skim over a few times a month if even that just won't have the same effect. The management is not likely to care about anything that doesn't clog the support department, which has to be paid to do their work.

There isn't much info you can report on this problem. If you reload the save game the problem goes away, so savegame wouldn't help and they don't have anything built-in to track it down (nothing appears in log files at those moments). The goal here is not to "put pressure on Firaxis", just tell other people that they're not alone, and that's not problem with their computer. Anyway, the problem is not a show stopper. There're much more serious issues with the game (amount of micromanagement), so one bug more or less won't make big difference. Maybe SDK will help - if it will allow to runs custom AI vs other custom and stock AI without firing up UI, a lot of current problems will become irrelevant.

 

[Akhenaton]

There isn't much info you can report on this problem. If you reload the save game the problem goes away, so savegame wouldn't help and they don't have anything built-in to track it down (nothing appears in log files at those moments).

They do have autorun capability, so that a save which has the world state information where the problem can occur, may be used successfully in running tests until the problem appears.

The goal here is not to "put pressure on Firaxis", just tell other people that they're not alone, and that's not problem with their computer.

Sure, because Firaxis is not reading this forum. That's why I'm suggesting users to make bug reports where they count. Evidently, Firaxis is not getting enough bug reports, because they are not publishing release notes or other communications about the status of known problems.

Anyway, the problem is not a show stopper. There're much more serious issues with the game (amount of micromanagement), so one bug more or less won't make big difference.

Game design issues are IMHO never as serious as stability or very serious performance issues which can't be mitigated by changing settings. You need to be able to first play the game properly without losing your patience, before you can form an opinion about something as refined as your personal preference on "micromanagement".

Personally I don't have any problem with that, I like to handle my workers individually and set the production tiles in cities periodically. The only thing I need from unit management is a properly working route discovery algorithm, which seems to be working just fine for me.

 

[LuminaryJanitor]

I find it hard to believe that you overclocked a processor from 1.4GHz to 2.0GHz and it's still running at 25C...

Unless it's -40C outside and you've got the window open .

 

[Kristof73]

There isn't much info you can report on this problem. If you reload the save game the problem goes away, so savegame wouldn't help and they don't have anything built-in to track it down (nothing appears in log files at those moments)..

Reloading the save changes nothing. Game is still frozen. After one round it go back to slow "normal" for a while. But after some units moves it locks again. Of course there are some errors in logs like this:

LSystem.log
building:Art/Structures/Buildings/Obelisk/Obelisk.nif does not contain a node called SHADOW. Its shadow, if present, will be corrupt!
building:Art/Structures/Buildings/Colosseum/Colosseum.nif does not contain a node called SHADOW. Its shadow, if present, will be corrupt!
building:Art/Structures/Buildings/BombShelters/BombShelters.nif does not contain a node called SHADOW. Its shadow, if present, will be corrupt!
building:Art/Structures/Buildings/Grocer/Grocer.nif does not contain a node called SHADOW. Its shadow, if present, will be corrupt!
LSystem failed to place node Leaf_Farm_4x4!
LSystem failed to place node Leaf_Farm_4x4!
LSystem failed to place node Leaf_Farm_4x4!
..... cut

There're much more serious issues with the game (amount of micromanagement), so one bug more or less won't make big difference.

Till a game is playable I tolerate all errors. Which growing from round to round:
- in some cities I can't see my units, and I have to migrate one unit from city and all others appears
- after loading the save, planes don't flying on patrol missions (probably they are patrol but don't fly above my cities)
... and many more

 

[Kristof73]

Sure, because Firaxis is not reading this forum. That's why I'm suggesting users to make bug reports where they count. Evidently, Firaxis is not getting enough bug reports, because they are not publishing release notes or other communications about the status of known problems.

See publishers of Hearts of Iron II patches to the game:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180788
How many detail changes. I agree that it should be official Firaxis list of all known errors. Heee - but They don't do that becouse everybody will see how game is often unplayable in technical means and they can't do that - for him beter is still eyes soaping for players.

Personally I don't have any problem with that, I like to handle my workers individually and set the production tiles in cities periodically. The only thing I need from unit management is a properly working route discovery algorithm, which seems to be working just fine for me.

In later game unit management especially in cities is hell. Planes, ships and ground units need to be alone on city screen and in stacks.

 

[Kristof73]

I find it hard to believe that you overclocked a processor from 1.4GHz to 2.0GHz and it's still running at 25C...

Unless it's -40C outside and you've got the window open .

No - 33C - 35C in home.

 

[alexti2]

Game design issues are IMHO never as serious as stability or very serious performance issues which can't be mitigated by changing settings. You need to be able to first play the game properly without losing your patience, before you can form an opinion about something as refined as your personal preference on "micromanagement".

Looking at this from the practical point of view, I'm wasting perhaps 10-15 minutes per game waiting for that silly lag, and I'm spending 4-6 hours doing obvious (at least to me) unit movement. So I'd definitely prefer solution for 4-6 hours of wasted time (even if it's not a result of a bug) than to 10-15 minutes.

 

[alexti2]

Reloading the save changes nothing. Game is still frozen. Till a game is playable I tolerate all errors. Which growing from round to round:
- in some cities I can't see my units, and I have to migrate one unit from city and all others appears
- after loading the save, planes don't flying on patrol missions (probably they are patrol but don't fly above my cities)
... and many more

I guess I was wrong thinking that you have the same problem. With all details you've mentioned I don't see much correlation with what I'm aware of. The only similarity is a lag in unit operations which goes away in a few turns.

 

[Kristof73]

I guess I was wrong thinking that you have the same problem. With all details you've mentioned I don't see much correlation with what I'm aware of. The only similarity is a lag in unit operations which goes away in a few turns.

Just load my save and see yourself. Please do that and told me if there are the same problems like mine. And then skip to next tour (shift + enter). See changes and fly on recon mission by plane from Noworosijsk (close Saladin border) to his island on north-east.

 

[Kristof73]

Today I received a private message form staff member:

Today Just so you know, you wont have search for how to email your save to firaxis.. they have seen your report, and the fix for the issue should be in next patch.