HydroponicS
Chieftain
Mmm . . . Turpentine
_______________________
What you think we're the only ones with hippies?
The Germans invented the Time Travelling bong
Peloponnesian War Scenario Development Thread
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
_______________________
What you think we're the only ones with hippies?
The Germans invented the Time Travelling bong
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
If there won't be too many of them, Athens's allies in Magna Graecia could simply be placed under Athenian control.
If that's unpractical, I do hope we can conjure up a better name than "Pro-Athenian Sicilians"!
If that's unpractical, I do hope we can conjure up a better name than "Pro-Athenian Sicilians"!
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Yeah, that is a cheap name...But as Xen said, pro-Athenians/Delian League members were not necessarily under Athenian political/militaristical control....
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Aren't, BTW, Greeks supposed to drink ouzo?
But the true civving drug is caffeine! Midnight, sad music, a hot cappucino and the thunder of my Artillery flattening thousand-year-old Temples, that's what life's about!
But the true civving drug is caffeine! Midnight, sad music, a hot cappucino and the thunder of my Artillery flattening thousand-year-old Temples, that's what life's about!
at the time, both Athens, and Syracuse were democracies, and while Athens may have been at war with Corinthm Syracuse seems not to have cared- it was only under direct Athenian aggression- from the Athenian statesman Alcibaites, who proposed that gaining control over the resources of Sicilly would aid the war effort, and as such launched the invasion of Syracuse (unfortunatelly, political intriuge in Athens forced him into exile, perhaps Athens most successful commander unfortunatelly, I think it would have been possible for Athens to have taken Sicilly, or at least Syracuse had he been in command)- though you seem to be saying that Syracused was allied with Athens...[/B][/QUOTE]
all right,have it your way, for now at least, but dont blame me if you get offended as so many others seem to have when I go on one my assorted rantings... I have a Roman temperment in such things...
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
You forgot one important fact. Not only was Alcibaites prevented from attacking Syracuse, but he went to Sparta and told them what was happening. Sparta sent aid to Syracuse, which helped to defeat the Athenian attack
Greek Stud
Prince
Ok I have a few minutes.
Subject:
The Greeks were olive skinned, Blonde Haired, Hazel to Green Eyes. They also had people that have this Grey-Blue eyed color. I am a blonde Greek. My brother and I have eyes that change color in the sun.
We have relatives from the city of Smyrna (Izmir Turkey) but not until 1920 did the Turks reoccupy these cities (Sardis, Miletos, Harlicarnusis sp?) My relatives that survived said the streets soaked in the blood of their brothers. The Turks shot at dead corpses and the brain of one man drenched my aunt Maria's face as she covered her two children under her. She said All the Greeks were forced off of Anatolia by 1929.
I haven't heard of Turks having blonde hair? But I do see people with blonde hair because of what we say is Alexander the Greats expedition. Thats why you see some Middle Easterners and Caucauses States with that characteristic. But also some Chechens have blonde hair. Also, Aborigines had blonde hair, before europeans came. Oh who knows.
Subject:
I would love to help. You all, I have noticed, know a lot of the details I have forgotten over the years. Xen seems to know more than I thought! But from a Greek point of view, I can tell you the folk understanding of these studies. If I know it that is. Also the everyday descriptions of how you see Generals being thrown out and Syracuse trapping the Athenian Navy into these bays that most Greek cities had. The boats could not escape Syrakuse and then the villagers threw fire at the boats and burned them down. But the cultural understanding, I have a good view of. Greeks today still hold grudges. Like the idea of Macedonians not being Greek. That's for 2 reasons. They are ate at the location where the Dorians made an invasion of the Mycenaens in Ancient unrecorded times, and are blamed for their demise. Today, the Macedonia you see is from the Serbian State of Yugoslavia. They have nothing to do with the present day Macedonia Province of Greece which once occupied the area with King Philip. The Ottoman Empire can be the blame for this.
Subject:
Ouzo is the liquer for Greek children. It is very mild compared to drinks like restina. It is popular around the world, because thats as far as liquer drinkers will take it.
Subject:
Hey Xen or anyone else, will you all be including other forms of government?
Athens had a form of Democracy, but we didn't call it that. I forget what we call it.
There is also Tyrant City-States, which didn't have a negative conotation to it. Most islands like Chios and Samos and Rhodes had this.
Minoans had a form of Monarchy slash Tyrant State. Leaders were not called Kings, they are called simply Rulers. Minos means Ruler. Some believe that they had a type of government like seen elsewhere in the world, where the Ruler and his family were either in part divine or was controlled or in contact with the divine. You see this method in other Greek cities with certain pagan God statues devoted to certain cities. Today you see it in Christianity (from the Byzantine Empire) by having a Christian Patron Saint for each city.
Oligarcy I see you used in Sparta. I wouldn't know for sure, but I was of the impression that it was led by one leader at the Pelponessian War. But not sure.
Talk more later, got to go
Subject:
The Greeks were olive skinned, Blonde Haired, Hazel to Green Eyes. They also had people that have this Grey-Blue eyed color. I am a blonde Greek. My brother and I have eyes that change color in the sun.
We have relatives from the city of Smyrna (Izmir Turkey) but not until 1920 did the Turks reoccupy these cities (Sardis, Miletos, Harlicarnusis sp?) My relatives that survived said the streets soaked in the blood of their brothers. The Turks shot at dead corpses and the brain of one man drenched my aunt Maria's face as she covered her two children under her. She said All the Greeks were forced off of Anatolia by 1929.
I haven't heard of Turks having blonde hair? But I do see people with blonde hair because of what we say is Alexander the Greats expedition. Thats why you see some Middle Easterners and Caucauses States with that characteristic. But also some Chechens have blonde hair. Also, Aborigines had blonde hair, before europeans came. Oh who knows.
Subject:
I would love to help. You all, I have noticed, know a lot of the details I have forgotten over the years. Xen seems to know more than I thought! But from a Greek point of view, I can tell you the folk understanding of these studies. If I know it that is. Also the everyday descriptions of how you see Generals being thrown out and Syracuse trapping the Athenian Navy into these bays that most Greek cities had. The boats could not escape Syrakuse and then the villagers threw fire at the boats and burned them down. But the cultural understanding, I have a good view of. Greeks today still hold grudges. Like the idea of Macedonians not being Greek. That's for 2 reasons. They are ate at the location where the Dorians made an invasion of the Mycenaens in Ancient unrecorded times, and are blamed for their demise. Today, the Macedonia you see is from the Serbian State of Yugoslavia. They have nothing to do with the present day Macedonia Province of Greece which once occupied the area with King Philip. The Ottoman Empire can be the blame for this.
Subject:
Ouzo is the liquer for Greek children. It is very mild compared to drinks like restina. It is popular around the world, because thats as far as liquer drinkers will take it.
Subject:
Hey Xen or anyone else, will you all be including other forms of government?
Athens had a form of Democracy, but we didn't call it that. I forget what we call it.
There is also Tyrant City-States, which didn't have a negative conotation to it. Most islands like Chios and Samos and Rhodes had this.
Minoans had a form of Monarchy slash Tyrant State. Leaders were not called Kings, they are called simply Rulers. Minos means Ruler. Some believe that they had a type of government like seen elsewhere in the world, where the Ruler and his family were either in part divine or was controlled or in contact with the divine. You see this method in other Greek cities with certain pagan God statues devoted to certain cities. Today you see it in Christianity (from the Byzantine Empire) by having a Christian Patron Saint for each city.
Oligarcy I see you used in Sparta. I wouldn't know for sure, but I was of the impression that it was led by one leader at the Pelponessian War. But not sure.
Talk more later, got to go
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Sometimes they had one leader, in case maybe a strong enough heir wasn't born, the heir to take over was killed, etc... We'll most definately have to think about your govt suggestions...
Xen, ya don't have to gimme the map just yet, but I hunger for a screenie of the territory!!! How to get territory:
Click on View in the Minimap
Click on Territory
I deserately hunger for a screenie!!!
Xen, ya don't have to gimme the map just yet, but I hunger for a screenie of the territory!!! How to get territory:
Click on View in the Minimap
Click on Territory
I deserately hunger for a screenie!!!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I rather doubt you're a blond Greek by my standards; every Greek I've met has insisted that I am blond, and I'm absolutely not by Swedish standards. Now, don't get me started on the Turks' idea of "blond" ... a Turkish girl told me I could be a decent deal darker and still be blond ...
Ouzo for children? A Greek woman recently told me only alcoholics drink it pure ... I guess I better don't try retsina! How many percent is it anyway?
I don't see how the Ottomans can be blamed for a bunch of 19th C Slav nationalists claiming the term 'Macedonian'?
Ouzo for children? A Greek woman recently told me only alcoholics drink it pure ... I guess I better don't try retsina! How many percent is it anyway?
I don't see how the Ottomans can be blamed for a bunch of 19th C Slav nationalists claiming the term 'Macedonian'?
Greek Stud
Prince
Here are some pictures of me:
http://www.geocities.com/angelosipsas/kidpictures.html
My hair now is as dark as the last picture. My Mom's hair is black and my Dad's was white blonde. We think that I am a mix.
I didn't think Serb's like to be called Slav? My friend Natalie from Skopje consider's herself Macedonian with Serbian decent. Well I haven't visited the skii lodges up their ever since America bombed Serbia, the Woman sex slave trade has spread to Macedonia (F.Y.R.M.)
Other notes:
Yes Xen, I know of the poem/story of the Argonauts, I just like the sound of that better. Sounds like Astronaut. And eveyone wants to be an Astronaut. Maybe they can have the Apollo Program, temple that is...
Capitals of Macedonia would be Thessaloniki after which shifted from Philippoupolis when Alexander the Great took thrown.
and my past post, its spelled: Halikarnassos
I think restina is just classified as poison, it makes white puss come out from your nose. At least for the greeks I know, we don't think Ouzo is that strong. Not sure of the alcohol percentage.
My hair now is as dark as the last picture. My Mom's hair is black and my Dad's was white blonde. We think that I am a mix.
I didn't think Serb's like to be called Slav? My friend Natalie from Skopje consider's herself Macedonian with Serbian decent. Well I haven't visited the skii lodges up their ever since America bombed Serbia, the Woman sex slave trade has spread to Macedonia (F.Y.R.M.)
Other notes:
Yes Xen, I know of the poem/story of the Argonauts, I just like the sound of that better. Sounds like Astronaut. And eveyone wants to be an Astronaut. Maybe they can have the Apollo Program, temple that is...
Capitals of Macedonia would be Thessaloniki after which shifted from Philippoupolis when Alexander the Great took thrown.
and my past post, its spelled: Halikarnassos
I think restina is just classified as poison, it makes white puss come out from your nose. At least for the greeks I know, we don't think Ouzo is that strong. Not sure of the alcohol percentage.
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
The capital at this period should be either Aegae or Pella; Pella if the war was during or after the reign of King Archelaus. Thessalonika was only built after Alexander the Great's son and brother died (forgot the date).
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Greek Stud: I call that darkish brown ...
The Serbs I've met haven't had anything against being refered to as 'Slav', but I'm not in a position to say whether they've been representative in that regard.
Mongoloid Cow: I cannot find the exact year the capital was moved, but Archelaus ascended to the throne in 413, so for at least most of the war the capital was Aegae.
The Serbs I've met haven't had anything against being refered to as 'Slav', but I'm not in a position to say whether they've been representative in that regard.
Mongoloid Cow: I cannot find the exact year the capital was moved, but Archelaus ascended to the throne in 413, so for at least most of the war the capital was Aegae.
Greek Stud
Prince
Not that this pertains to this scenario but:
Minoan Government: Thalassocracy
Here's the information I have regarding Sicilian Colonies:
Northeast-
*Zankle or Messina (Chalkian)
*Naxos (Chalkian)
East-
*Katane or Catania (Chalkian)
*Megara Hybaia (Megaran)
Southeast-
*Syracuse (Corinthian)
*Kamarina (Corinthian)
South-
*Gela (Rhodesian)
Southwest-
*Akragas (Rhodesian)
West-
*Selinos (Megaran)
North-
*Himera (Chalkian)
*Mylei (Chalkian)
Minoan Government: Thalassocracy
Here's the information I have regarding Sicilian Colonies:
Northeast-
*Zankle or Messina (Chalkian)
*Naxos (Chalkian)
East-
*Katane or Catania (Chalkian)
*Megara Hybaia (Megaran)
Southeast-
*Syracuse (Corinthian)
*Kamarina (Corinthian)
South-
*Gela (Rhodesian)
Southwest-
*Akragas (Rhodesian)
West-
*Selinos (Megaran)
North-
*Himera (Chalkian)
*Mylei (Chalkian)
Greek Stud
Prince
And yes I know my hair is dark now, but my point was that if you look at my hair when I was younger 8 years and down, that was the common color of Greeks. Greeks I know say the darker colors come from mixed cultures. There were jet black straight haired Greeks in the Boiotia area. Most people from Peloponessos had white blonde to blonde hair. Helen of Troy (Sparta) was blonde, so was her sister and mother. So was the man Perris who kidnapped her from Troy (we consider Trojans to be Greek). Most Greeks believe and our taught that the most probable places of origin for us is from Scandinavia from the north and Egypt from the south. The Minoans isolation on Crete allowed for a long period of peace and strength in Mediterrain trade, being the largest island, and good location. This rapid growth is the explanation for the island of Thera (present day: Santorini) having flushing toilets and running water in 1600BC. Some say this is the most probably location of Atlantis. Considering that the island disappeared to the Ancients after a violent erruption heard as far west as the USA and Brazil; as far south as South Africa; and as far east as China. Sending seismic waves as high as 650 feet and 25feet over Israel. The erruption is blamed for a massive decline in Minoan culture on Crete, furthur damaging builds already hit by earthquakes. It is recognized as the largest volcanic reaction ever recorded. Last active in 1956.
settle down now everyone, we have a job to do here, and that job is the peloponesian war, not the late bronze age minoans
@Mongoloid Cow- hmmm...I was assumin the Pella was the capital of macedonia in any event, as such we need ot reach a consenses on what city is the capital
@Amenhotep- you will ghave a map preveiw by friday I swear it!
@Greek Stud- I assure you, I have full competency in what I am talking about, I'm a Roman,VERY intact with mine, and other mediteraenn cultures, and histoies, and knolegable classical scholar in my own right.
this said, not all greeks are blond- "blondness" is NOT a med. trait, it is a slavic trait brought into greece by the slavic migrations of the middle ages into the Byzantine empire
@Mongoloid Cow- hmmm...I was assumin the Pella was the capital of macedonia in any event, as such we need ot reach a consenses on what city is the capital
@Amenhotep- you will ghave a map preveiw by friday I swear it!
@Greek Stud- I assure you, I have full competency in what I am talking about
, I'm a Roman,VERY intact with mine, and other mediteraenn cultures, and histoies, and knolegable classical scholar in my own right.this said, not all greeks are blond- "blondness" is NOT a med. trait, it is a slavic trait brought into greece by the slavic migrations of the middle ages into the Byzantine empire
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Ahh, that's good news. Sigh...Anyways, we should now take into consideration Greek Stud's governments and how they could be pertrayed in civ. Suggestions? Questions? Comments?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Cut us some slack, Xen! Nothing beats a pointless OT discussion! 
The only of those photos you're arguably blond on is the two-year-old one. At that age my hair was the color of white gold, and my sister's was literally white. Being blondish as a little kid doesn't count!
I guess no-ones interested in my opinion as to what proportion of Slavs are blond ...
***
Let's forget the Bronze Age for the moment. What governmental system and what allegiance did Crete have during the late 4th C? For some reason, you don't hear anything much of the Cretans during the Classical period.
Greek Stud: While the origins of those Sicilian colonies indeed are interesting, what would be more useful would be info on which side, if any, they chose during the Peloponnesian War.
My vote's for Aegae as the Macedonian capital.
The only of those photos you're arguably blond on is the two-year-old one. At that age my hair was the color of white gold, and my sister's was literally white. Being blondish as a little kid doesn't count!
I guess no-ones interested in my opinion as to what proportion of Slavs are blond ...
***
Let's forget the Bronze Age for the moment. What governmental system and what allegiance did Crete have during the late 4th C? For some reason, you don't hear anything much of the Cretans during the Classical period.
Greek Stud: While the origins of those Sicilian colonies indeed are interesting, what would be more useful would be info on which side, if any, they chose during the Peloponnesian War.
My vote's for Aegae as the Macedonian capital.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
I say Pella, but let's get Kryten's bit in here first...I believe the Cretans were completely neutral in the war...Perhaps it was in the Delian League, but made absolutely no act to commit troops...
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Who's going to be the Macedonian leader, btw? If Archelaus, Pella makes pretty much sense, I guess.
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