People overthrew my Government!

[Married2099]

I am finally starting to get the hang of this game. I still haven't won a game yet but I am sure having fun losing. Anyways, I was palying the French on Regent game (all exapnaisons and patches by the way.) There were 2 continents and I was sharing it with the Inca's. I researched harder techs to start and mine apparently were more valuable because I was giving him 1 tech while he would gave me two. Most of the game I was ahead. I had about 25 cities. He finally cought up with me and when final contact was made with the other 3 civs I was ahead in techs. Incas eventually declared war numerous times. I switched from Republic to Democracy. (I actually made it to Industrial age.) After several wars with Inca's, my advisor came on and said something like"Your people are unhappy with the way you are ruling so they are overthrowing your governement." I was in anarchy for the next 6 - 8 turns. I didn't know your own people could declare anarchy. I eventually lost and ended up as Joan of Arc the Terrible. (I was excited because that was a big improvement from being worthless and pathetic.)
Losing but still having fun!

 

[thetrooper]

Hmmm... your cities must have been in civil disorder for a long time due to war weariness or WW combined with the lack of luxuries and 'happiness buildings'. Be careful in democrazy. Adjust the lux slider by pressing F1 and/or trade for more luxuries. Click each city to stop civil disorder. Number of happy citizens should never be less than the number of unhappy citizens.

 

[Aabraxan]

I first wrote this post with a big welcome, but I see a join date of over a year ago. Well, welcome back, maybe?

 

[Married2099]

I had so many cities I had to switch my govoners to manage citizen happiness. Worked very well. I WAS in a war for a long time. That's why they over threw me. I also kept losing population, productions, and food because everyone was switching to entertainers to keep the cities out of civil disorder. I just thought it was an interesting event.

 

[vmxa]

Even though Demo looks great, it is a very poor war government. As the French you are not Religious and should only switch from Despotism to Republic and stay there.

Do not waste your time even researching Demo it is an optinal tech and you do not need it. Once you have been at war for more than say 15 turns, look to get peace. 20 turns of peace are needed to remove all war weariness, before you should get in another war.

Use F1 to see the relationship between happy faces and unhappy. If a town has more unhappy than happy, you have to take action or you will get disorder. Disorder can lead to anarchy and riots.

Riots will cause tings to be destryed in your towns as it does in real life. It MUST be avoided. You first look to a lux to the empire. Then the lux slider. If these options are not attractive, you will have to use specialist. Try a scientist or a taxman first and if that does not do it, an entertainer.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

I got painfull flip experiences on higher difficulty levels. Losing HUGE armies stationed in those cities.

 

[Norton II]

I had so many cities I had to switch my govoners to manage citizen happiness. Worked very well. I WAS in a war for a long time. That's why they over threw me. I also kept losing population, productions, and food because everyone was switching to entertainers to keep the cities out of civil disorder. I just thought it was an interesting event.

If you're using the governor, remember to check the domestic advisor screen every turn for entertainers. If you see them in your core cities, move the lux slider up. And as vmxa said, democracy is a horrible war government. In fact, it is the only government in which war weariness can lead directly to anarchy. In republic and feudalism (the two governments with low war weariness), unhappiness due to WW only increases half as quickly as in democracy, and it can only lead to anarchy if you let your cities riot for a while. In democracy, even if no city ever riots, your government will be overthrown when WW gets high enough. You can check out Oystein's article on war weariness in the War Academy to see exactly how WW works, and why democracy is so much worse than other goverments in wartime.
In fact, democracy isn't great for peaceful builder-type games, either. If you're playing that sort of game, you're most likely going for a spaceship or diplomatic victory, in which case you want to get to the modern age as quickly as possible. Even for a religious civ, it's better to stay in republic and skip the two opional techs required to get democracy.

 

[rysingsun]

I WAS in a war for a long time. That's why they over threw me...

that's very correct. the people will overthrow their own democracy when you have been at war for too many turns. i'm not sure how many is "too many" since i haven't played as a democracy in years. best i remember it's about 50 turns of war and regardless of how much you spend on luxuries you will NOT be able to prevent the revolt. if you do revolt i suggest you avoid settling back into democracy after the anarchy is over because they will soon revolt again.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Democracy is tough to war in, even on regent.

To reduce war weariness in the future:

Only build fast attackers and and try to only attack from within your territory -cavalry are ideal - weariness goes up if you just have units in the enemy territory.
Try to keep your units out of range for a counter attack - every attack on your units raises weariness.
Don't attack at poor odds - losing units is bad for weariness - using artillery.
Make peace a lot - you are better off with short, rotating wars against different opponents than long bloody ones.

 

[Norton II]

that's very correct. the people will overthrow their own democracy when you have been at war for too many turns. i'm not sure how many is "too many" since i haven't played as a democracy in years. best i remember it's about 50 turns of war and regardless of how much you spend on luxuries you will NOT be able to prevent the revolt. if you do revolt i suggest you avoid settling back into democracy after the anarchy is over because they will soon revolt again.

It's not so much the number of turns as the level of war weariness. Sure, it might take 50 turns for WW to get that high, but it might not, especially if several of your cities get captured. And unless you've made peace, they'd revolt again almost immediately if you switched back to demo after the revolt.

 

[Doom666]

You said you had all the expansions of Civ 3? Then how is it possible that you get overthrown if you even have the governors in cities? I've only had 1 city flip to another civ in the game ever. And that was in the first original unpatched Civ 3. Since i got the expansions, there has been no flips either side, so i think that either i've got some weird version of the game that nobody else has, or then they disabled flips from expansions.

This is really amazing to hear.

Another thing, Democracy is the best government there is, especially in war times. I always get a massive income even during wars, and i can practically build my armies to infinity, without losing income, or units too much. Also, onl,y a fraction of those units die in the war, so that their upkeep would get added to the income. I dont get it...

 

[Aabraxan]

I've only had 1 city flip to another civ in the game ever. And that was in the first original unpatched Civ 3. Since i got the expansions, there has been no flips either side, so i think that either i've got some weird version of the game that nobody else has, or then they disabled flips from expansions.

Or you may have flips disabled. I believe you can turn them on and off at game setup. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Look for enabling "cultural conversions."

 

[Decebalus]

Yes you can turn the cultural conversion off when you start a new game. Same area of the screen where you can choose what victory conditions you can have.

Good thing too because I hated that feature. Loosing a city due to cultural conversion is just wrong. I mean with propaganda or something deliberate on the enemy's side I'd understand a flip, but just out of the blue, makes no sense to me.

Especially true in a war. It is absolutely bogus that a city you just take can suddenlty flip back to an opponent especially if you have a ton of armies in it. It's just not right and not realistic.

I liked the CIVII way better, where if you took a city there would appear a bunch of gurrilla units, the numbers relative to the size of the city, and they could possibly retake the city. That I can see happening. Too bad they took that feature out of CIVIII.

 

[vmxa]

Another thing, Democracy is the best government there is, especially in war times. I always get a massive income even during wars, and i can practically build my armies to infinity, without losing income, or units too much. Also, onl,y a fraction of those units die in the war, so that their upkeep would get added to the income. I dont get it...

Demo is a very bad form to be in if you are having lots of wars. The worse thing is you are wasting time researching it and not getting to Steam. Not to mention that you have to revolt again and lose more production.

Anyway the lack of unit support will eat any extra bucks you gain. I have not used it in years.

 

[Alpha Killer II]

Hmmm... the people never overthrew my Gov.... do they choose the gov. after Anarchy?... Do you choose the Gov?...umm... another thing.... umm... oo yeah... Did you lose?... thats bout it... (PS: I never got the people to overthrow my gov. because of my set up Governer)....

 

[Tomoyo]

(PS: I never got the people to overthrow my gov. because of my set up Governer)....

You never got the people to overthrow your government because you have never been in a democracy with level 3 war weariness, not because of your governor. You governor does nothing.

 

[Norton II]

You said you had all the expansions of Civ 3? Then how is it possible that you get overthrown if you even have the governors in cities? I've only had 1 city flip to another civ in the game ever. And that was in the first original unpatched Civ 3. Since i got the expansions, there has been no flips either side, so i think that either i've got some weird version of the game that nobody else has, or then they disabled flips from expansions.

This is really amazing to hear.

Another thing, Democracy is the best government there is, especially in war times. I always get a massive income even during wars, and i can practically build my armies to infinity, without losing income, or units too much. Also, onl,y a fraction of those units die in the war, so that their upkeep would get added to the income. I dont get it...

The only thing the governor can do about war weariness is make citizens into entertainers to combat the unhappiness it causes--this does nothing to reduce war weariness itself. As Tomoyo metioned above, once war weariness in democracy reaches level 3, your government is automatically overthrown even if none of your cities is in disorder. This can happen if, for example, a few of your cities get captured and you lose some units. In republic, you only have to deal with increased unhappiness; war weariness by itself can never result in anarchy in that government, no matter how high it gets.
As for culture flips, these are much more common at higher levels where the AI can build culture much faster than you can. Even then, they're more a nuisance than a castastrophe, as long as you don't leave large stacks of units in at-risk cities.
vmxa pretty much covered the problems with democracy; the only thing that needs to be added is that you can get massive income in republic, too, since that government also has the commerce bonus and isn't that much more corrupt than demo.

 

[Alpha Killer II]

Really, tell me what it's like...

 

[potatokiosk]

I've actually run some rather nice campaigns with a Demorcracy, but that's only because the AI strangles itself with Fascism and I get to tanks first.

 

[Alpha Killer II]

hmm...but tell me...do you lose when you get into Anarchy when it happened because of War Weariness/sadness...or do the people choose the Government?... Tell me!