Pick a Religion???
- Thread starter POWER
- Start date
Sparrowhawk
The Builder
I'm not sure whether religions would really give bonuses if realistically modelled. Some would slow down science, luxuries, or economy. Others might cause you to spontaneously go to war with people you should be friends with. Maybe you would even lose whole chunks of your empire when they split off from the "state" religion.
On another note, I think your poll needs to be expanded a lot. At the least, "none of the above" and "atheism" should be included, never mind all the religions that you missed (ie. hinduism, confucianism, taoism, shintoism, etc...).
Switch625
I don't care.
Why do you list "Christian" and "Protestant" as different religions? Since Protestants recognize Jesus Christ as their savior, I'd think they would qualify as "Christians."
Religious flame wars are very easy to trigger. :flamedevi You have to tread carefully. This is undoubtedly the reason why religion is treated abstractly in the game.
Religious flame wars are very easy to trigger. :flamedevi You have to tread carefully. This is undoubtedly the reason why religion is treated abstractly in the game.
Modern Hoplite
Chieftain
No good ever comes from religion topics anywhere on the internet. Personally, however, I'm agnostic.
Kinniken
Riding with William
... in principle.
Now tell me: what bonus do you give to what religion?
Protestatism would have a commercial bonus, but what about the other? Should Islam's bonus be militaristic, expansionist or scientific? Maybe Judaism should increase your civ's "sense of unity", lessening corruption? But should it slow assimilation of foreign nationals, since if I remember correctly you cannot convert to judaism? And maybe you could choose to be either tolerant (seperation of church/state), boosting assimilation rates for the first one, or even officialy atheistic (communism), maybe boosting the science rate?
Well, after a post like this, I'm sure half of the forum is getting ready to flame me. So: a) please don't, it was only an exemple, not serious proposals b) forget about religions in Civ, most civers feel much too passionate on the subject to argue reasonably on specific religions.
The only thing that might work would be "general" religions: instoring an official politheist or monotheist religion, leaving your citizen free of choosing for themselves, or abolishing religions, something like that. And even that would be too much for a lot of civers.
My 0.02
Now tell me: what bonus do you give to what religion?
Protestatism would have a commercial bonus, but what about the other? Should Islam's bonus be militaristic, expansionist or scientific? Maybe Judaism should increase your civ's "sense of unity", lessening corruption? But should it slow assimilation of foreign nationals, since if I remember correctly you cannot convert to judaism? And maybe you could choose to be either tolerant (seperation of church/state), boosting assimilation rates for the first one, or even officialy atheistic (communism), maybe boosting the science rate?
Well, after a post like this, I'm sure half of the forum is getting ready to flame me. So: a) please don't, it was only an exemple, not serious proposals b) forget about religions in Civ, most civers feel much too passionate on the subject to argue reasonably on specific religions.
The only thing that might work would be "general" religions: instoring an official politheist or monotheist religion, leaving your citizen free of choosing for themselves, or abolishing religions, something like that. And even that would be too much for a lot of civers.
My 0.02
I actually think it's a both good and bad idea. First, it sucks because so many people will hate it, and think that their religion is being unfavored or given wrong atributes.
But it could give some more nuiance to the game.
Jews - They are often known as great moneymakers. They have a reputation for being very good at finance, and are often bankers or rich merchants. So they should have commercial bonusses.
Christians - They have always been warlike (only in the last 100 years, they have calmed - and some might disagree here too) and expansionistic - so I would give them expansion bonusses.
Islamic people - They are known for their strong faith, so they should have religious bonusses.
Communists/ateists (i'm not saying these are the same, but to make it simpler i put them together) - They should deffinatly have industrial bonusses
Pure Ateists - They should have scientific bonusses due to the fact that no church tries to stop scientific discoveries, because discoveries often tends to make people loose faith, as they see that the church are not the only way to look at the world.
Budism - ?
Hinduism - ?
Anciant greek and roman religions - ?
Anciant north american religions - probably not true very correct, but many see the tribes in north america as warrior like, so I would give them military bonusses.
Taoism - ?
Shintoism - ?
Ancient Egyptian religions - ?
African religions - ?
Are there any others? (sorry if I forgot your religion, but i'm only human, sorry)
Disclaimer: I know, everything I post here is not correct, but my view on things. I don't put different kind of religions into boxes - though I try to give them attributes that I find, they have historical reasons for having. Again I do not say that these are the only attributes that these religions have, nor do I say one is better than the other. EG the Jews. They were known as great bankers, with great influence over the financial world in both America and Germany around second world war, and thats why commercial is their attribute.)
But it could give some more nuiance to the game.
Jews - They are often known as great moneymakers. They have a reputation for being very good at finance, and are often bankers or rich merchants. So they should have commercial bonusses.
Christians - They have always been warlike (only in the last 100 years, they have calmed - and some might disagree here too) and expansionistic - so I would give them expansion bonusses.
Islamic people - They are known for their strong faith, so they should have religious bonusses.
Communists/ateists (i'm not saying these are the same, but to make it simpler i put them together) - They should deffinatly have industrial bonusses
Pure Ateists - They should have scientific bonusses due to the fact that no church tries to stop scientific discoveries, because discoveries often tends to make people loose faith, as they see that the church are not the only way to look at the world.
Budism - ?
Hinduism - ?
Anciant greek and roman religions - ?
Anciant north american religions - probably not true very correct, but many see the tribes in north america as warrior like, so I would give them military bonusses.
Taoism - ?
Shintoism - ?
Ancient Egyptian religions - ?
African religions - ?
Are there any others? (sorry if I forgot your religion, but i'm only human, sorry)
Disclaimer: I know, everything I post here is not correct, but my view on things. I don't put different kind of religions into boxes - though I try to give them attributes that I find, they have historical reasons for having. Again I do not say that these are the only attributes that these religions have, nor do I say one is better than the other. EG the Jews. They were known as great bankers, with great influence over the financial world in both America and Germany around second world war, and thats why commercial is their attribute.)
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
I stick with Thomas Henry Huxley, and I`m glad that Firaxis does, too!
Isma'il Latif
Chieftain
So far I'm the only Muslim to vote, although with the very few number of voters, that gives Islam a pretty large percentage 
BTW The religion is called Islam, one who follows Islam is called a Muslim (the poll suggests otherwise).
BTW The religion is called Islam, one who follows Islam is called a Muslim (the poll suggests otherwise).
This is one of those things that seems logical, but would never happen because for political reasons. I mean, if the Civ3 developers are too afraid to include Facist and Fundamentalist governments, they obviously will not include a religion selection. I mean, people complain about the countries selected and their leaders, could you imagine the issues that selecting religions for the game would cause?
At the same time, religion played a huge role in developing the civilizations of the world, so it would make logical sense to include them in the game, or if you did not include specific religions, you could at least include types of religions. And just because I like to think about these things (and cause trouble), here are some thoughts on bonuses for a few religions:
Catholic: Population growth bonus in modern era (no birth control) some sort of happiness bonus. Tech disadvantage. Commercial disadvantage through middle ages (no banking allowed in ancient times).
Islam: Corruption reduction (harsh penalties for crimes) Fewer unhappy citizens. Technology disadvantage. Can't form democracy (we are talking about a Islam state, not Muslim people)
Church/State separation: Tech advantage, commercial advantage. No happiness bonus, Can not be monarchy (king gets power from God).
etc.
These are just a few ideas, and obviously don't account for all the possabilities. Sorry to anyone I offended.
At the same time, religion played a huge role in developing the civilizations of the world, so it would make logical sense to include them in the game, or if you did not include specific religions, you could at least include types of religions. And just because I like to think about these things (and cause trouble), here are some thoughts on bonuses for a few religions:
Catholic: Population growth bonus in modern era (no birth control) some sort of happiness bonus. Tech disadvantage. Commercial disadvantage through middle ages (no banking allowed in ancient times).
Islam: Corruption reduction (harsh penalties for crimes) Fewer unhappy citizens. Technology disadvantage. Can't form democracy (we are talking about a Islam state, not Muslim people)
Church/State separation: Tech advantage, commercial advantage. No happiness bonus, Can not be monarchy (king gets power from God).
etc.
These are just a few ideas, and obviously don't account for all the possabilities. Sorry to anyone I offended.
loki
Warlord
I think it's a stupid poll.
The moderator should close it before it degenerates into a flamewar. We hardly need a religious debate on this forum, and any other gross generalizations about the qualities and supposed benefits of one religion over another.
loki
The moderator should close it before it degenerates into a flamewar. We hardly need a religious debate on this forum, and any other gross generalizations about the qualities and supposed benefits of one religion over another.
loki
loki:
You are right, it is a stupid poll, and should probably be closed. I'm honestly not sure what the point of the poll is, and I wish POWER didn't include it with his post. I didn't respond to it.
At the same time, religion played a huge role in the development of modern (and ancient) civilizations, and I think the inclusion of some kind of religious concept in Civ3 is a valid area of discussion. I don't think its any less reasonable to talk about the impact of various state sponsored religions on a culture as a whole then it is to discuss the impacts of various types of governments. Is it OK to say that Japan is "militaristic and religious" but not OK to say that the Catholic faith may have hindered scientific development when they refused to aknowledge that the earth went around the sun? Or that it didn't hinder comerce when it forbid its members from being "money lenders?" I'm using the Catholic faith here because that is my background, so I know more about it then other religions. I would honestly be interested in how other people feel that their religions affected their cultures (both Civ terms and in general terms). Keep in mind that I'm talking about civ-wide influences, not effects on individuals.
If religion was included in Civ3 (which it never will be) it could be treated like different governments are currently treated: requiring different techs to implement different religions, some penalty to changing religions, etc. I'm not saying this is a good idea, I just hate that a legit topic is considered taboo for PC reasons.
You are right, it is a stupid poll, and should probably be closed. I'm honestly not sure what the point of the poll is, and I wish POWER didn't include it with his post. I didn't respond to it.
At the same time, religion played a huge role in the development of modern (and ancient) civilizations, and I think the inclusion of some kind of religious concept in Civ3 is a valid area of discussion. I don't think its any less reasonable to talk about the impact of various state sponsored religions on a culture as a whole then it is to discuss the impacts of various types of governments. Is it OK to say that Japan is "militaristic and religious" but not OK to say that the Catholic faith may have hindered scientific development when they refused to aknowledge that the earth went around the sun? Or that it didn't hinder comerce when it forbid its members from being "money lenders?" I'm using the Catholic faith here because that is my background, so I know more about it then other religions. I would honestly be interested in how other people feel that their religions affected their cultures (both Civ terms and in general terms). Keep in mind that I'm talking about civ-wide influences, not effects on individuals.
If religion was included in Civ3 (which it never will be) it could be treated like different governments are currently treated: requiring different techs to implement different religions, some penalty to changing religions, etc. I'm not saying this is a good idea, I just hate that a legit topic is considered taboo for PC reasons.
:rocket:
Jimcat
Culture Vulture
The idea of religion is both too open-ended and too controversial for inclusion in a mass-market strategy game like Civ3.
In a broad sense, religion is part of "culture" in Civ3. A city that culture flips to you might have converted to your religion. If you wanted to get more specific than that, you start going into the history of religions and possibly offending a lot of people.
I say, if you want to try to model real-world religions in a game, write your own and good luck to you. Civ3 works just fine without opening that can of worms.
In a broad sense, religion is part of "culture" in Civ3. A city that culture flips to you might have converted to your religion. If you wanted to get more specific than that, you start going into the history of religions and possibly offending a lot of people.
I say, if you want to try to model real-world religions in a game, write your own and good luck to you. Civ3 works just fine without opening that can of worms.
Sparrowhawk
The Builder
Very much so. Firaxis has not ignored the concept of religion, far from it. They were just smart enough to generalise it by calling it "culture". I mean, look at what the "cultural" buildings are -> temples, cathedrals, colliseums, libraries, universities. Two of those are obviously religious, and if you call science a 'religious-like belief', then that's what culture in Civ III is all about -> religion.
Reichsmarshal
Warlord
The game already to a very light extent represents this. The problem with going full scale is that you either have to give the bonuses completely unbiasedly or go for balance. It would be very controversial. Also some of the alleged scientific problems are contradictory to reality, for example the Protestant (that is a type of Christian, obviously) Reformation helped bring about modern science.
6-of-october
Pharaoh
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
- Messages
- 79
nor civilizations for that matter. it crosses borders and governments. and should never be considered as a Civ attribute.
I agree that this poll should be closed
too offensive subject to most people.
I agree that this poll should be closed
too offensive subject to most people.
i think religion should be in the game .... but rather than the standard religions of the world like cristianity and islam ..... u could have a "greek religion" and a "aztec religion" and so on
it would work much like culture does execpt it "infects" your peoples citizens (not a bad thing .... but i cant think of a better word) and grows much like culture but only with religious structures .... and your different religions could impart a particular stat to your peoples .... which u would choise after your religion acheived a particular "score"
ie ... u start your game and build a few temples .... after your religion score has build up to 100 u get to choise a stat for your religion .... and after u get a score of 1000 u get to add another stat to your religion and so on
so an advanced religion would start to roll over the enemy citys if u have nurtured it BUT .... that might be a good thing for your enemy as his citizens would also get the benifit of this stat ....
as a civilization u could abandon your own religion and take up someone elses if it was strong then all your temples and cathedrals would start to add to the other religion making it much more powerful, and also the citizens of a religion would hate to goto war with people from the same religion
ie ... the babolonian religion has grown very strong and the roman religion is weak, so the romans decide to abandon there religion and take up the babolonian religion ... so if the babolonians decide to goto war with the romans then the babolonians would get a war wearyness type effect immeadiatly under any government (perhaps to a lesser degree under some governments)
also any military unit would be able to purge a selected religion either by killing poputaltion off (fast) or by persecution (slow)
the different types of stats could be something like increased food production, incrased production, incrased trade bonus, increased happyness, more tolerent of war wearyness ..... stuff like that ...
i think this would add a HUGE extra leval to the game and be fun to play also
it would work much like culture does execpt it "infects" your peoples citizens (not a bad thing .... but i cant think of a better word) and grows much like culture but only with religious structures .... and your different religions could impart a particular stat to your peoples .... which u would choise after your religion acheived a particular "score"
ie ... u start your game and build a few temples .... after your religion score has build up to 100 u get to choise a stat for your religion .... and after u get a score of 1000 u get to add another stat to your religion and so on
so an advanced religion would start to roll over the enemy citys if u have nurtured it BUT .... that might be a good thing for your enemy as his citizens would also get the benifit of this stat ....
as a civilization u could abandon your own religion and take up someone elses if it was strong then all your temples and cathedrals would start to add to the other religion making it much more powerful, and also the citizens of a religion would hate to goto war with people from the same religion
ie ... the babolonian religion has grown very strong and the roman religion is weak, so the romans decide to abandon there religion and take up the babolonian religion ... so if the babolonians decide to goto war with the romans then the babolonians would get a war wearyness type effect immeadiatly under any government (perhaps to a lesser degree under some governments)
also any military unit would be able to purge a selected religion either by killing poputaltion off (fast) or by persecution (slow)
the different types of stats could be something like increased food production, incrased production, incrased trade bonus, increased happyness, more tolerent of war wearyness ..... stuff like that ...
i think this would add a HUGE extra leval to the game and be fun to play also
I agree that the way Firaxis handled religion was probably best. I find it interesting that temples are available before polythiesm. What are my people worshiping in that first temple I built? Or is it just a center to prepare the dead for a god-free afterlife? I also guess you have to look at Cathedrals as generic "centers for monotheiastic worship" rather then true Cathedrals. I'm kind of surprised that no one has complained about Cathedrals being the only monotheistic religious building you can build.
Similar threads
