Piety in Brave New World

[Calouste]

I can't believe this is really happening, GE purchasing with Tradition? I guess Tradition will be too powerful.

The effect only kicks in at Industrial, at which point there aren't that many wonders left to rush.

 

[EEE_BOY]

The effect only kicks in at Industrial, at which point there aren't that many wonders left to rush.

Louvre, Eiffel Tower, broadway for cultural. These wonders are so expansive without GE.

 

[Inhalaattori]

If the exclusivity between Rationalism and Piety is removed, and Rationalism isn't weakened in any way, everybody will take Rationalism every game. That's not good design.

Much better to keep them exclusive and actually make Piety competitive.

Not really. It seems they have nerfed Rationalism in a big way. At least the opener and finisher:

"Adopting Rationalism with grant +10% Science while the empire is Happy. (down from 15%) Unlocks building the Porcelain Tower. Adopting all policies in the Rationalism tree will grant a free Technology. (down from 2 free techs) It also allows the purchase of Great Scientists with Faith starting in the Industrial Era."

Also note that you now have to finish the Rationalism tree to buy Great Scientists.

 

[God of Kings]

Louvre, Eiffel Tower, broadway for cultural. These wonders are so expansive without GE.

Add in the Neusch, Sydney Opera House, and the CN Tower as well

 

[EEE_BOY]

Add in the Neusch, Sydney Opera House, and the CN Tower as well

Are these cultural wonders in BNW?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

1. Neusch has several Culture bonuses that are added to Castles
2. Sydney Opera provides a free Policy
3. CN Tower prvodies free Brodcast Towers in all cities (which raise Culture Output of cities)

 

[Altisma]

Not really. It seems they have nerfed Rationalism in a big way. At least the opener and finisher:

"Adopting Rationalism with grant +10% Science while the empire is Happy. (down from 15%) Unlocks building the Porcelain Tower. Adopting all policies in the Rationalism tree will grant a free Technology. (down from 2 free techs) It also allows the purchase of Great Scientists with Faith starting in the Industrial Era."

Also note that you now have to finish the Rationalism tree to buy Great Scientists.

The nerfs aren't enough to make Rationalism not picked the first it becomes available.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Looks like this thread is now about anything but Piety...

If the exclusivity between Rationalism and Piety is removed, and Rationalism isn't weakened in any way, everybody will take Rationalism every game. That's not good design.

Much better to keep them exclusive and actually make Piety competitive.

Piety already is competive, especially if you go tall. Mandate of Heaven and Reformation greatly increase your culture output and policy rate. This means more policies overall. You miss out on science boosts from Rationalism, but that can be compensated for with science related policies from other trees and a better economy overall.

Now that we know all Aesthetics policies it looks like Piety is one of the two new trees. Reformation beliefes were mentioned, but we know they're not part of the finisher in the current build. I guess they moved it to an earlier policy to avoid players investing too many policies into piety before the best beliefs are already taken. One preview mentioned that there are effects (didn't mention if from wonders or policies) that increase the rate of golden ages, and since a Piety policy used to decrease the happiness threshold for golden ages by 25% before everything was rebalanced I have a suspicion we'll see that again. The tooltip for Piety said the tree is related to religion and culture after all.

Edit:

The nerfs aren't enough to make Rationalism not picked the first it becomes available.

They are for me. I always thought that Rationalism was overrated. I used to get techs faster than I could do anything useful with them. The build queues just kept getting longer.

 

[wigwam]

In the current game, Piety is suboptimal for Diplomatic and Science victories; Rationalism is suboptimal for Cultural victories. Doesn't mean you can't go with the suboptimal choice and still do fine. In G&K, Piety is so culture-oriented that it's generally suboptimal for Domination victories too; in BNW, Piety will be radically different and have all the cultural stuff stripped out, so maybe it'll be a better choice for Domination.

It also opens early enough, compared to Rationalism, that they shouldn't compete too much. But Rationalism is still a complete no-brainer, even with the nerfs.

 

[EEE_BOY]

In the current game, Piety is suboptimal for Diplomatic and Science victories; Rationalism is suboptimal for Cultural victories. Doesn't mean you can't go with the suboptimal choice and still do fine. In G&K, Piety is so culture-oriented that it's generally suboptimal for Domination victories too; in BNW, Piety will be radically different and have all the cultural stuff stripped out, so maybe it'll be a better choice for Domination.

It also opens early enough, compared to Rationalism, that they shouldn't compete too much. But Rationalism is still a complete no-brainer, even with the nerfs.

I am thinking about a liberty left 3 cities then full tradition 6-8 cities plus piety opener strategy that I will try for my first cultural game once BNW is out.

Think about this, Pyramids and Great Mosque of D both have great engineer points, which means it is highly likely to get a GE for Global Theater at Printing Press.

The Piety Opener is to ensure high faith per turn so that by the time of Industrial era, there will be just enough faith to buy a GE for Louvre.

Then possibly Liberty finisher GE for another wonder like Eiffel Tower, and another faith GE for Broadway.

A policy or two into piety is essential to make the faith per turn working at relatively cheap hammer costs. And liberty left is also essential to secure some land for peaceful digging.

 

[TheSovietMuffin]

Piety can be effective with the right amount of cities and wonders. If you make a focused empire with grabbing each and every single wonder and culture focused religion it could generate over 300+ culture by 1500 AD. Sistine Chapel is very important for this by the way. To make your religion the dominate one you usually need a natural wonder ex: Uluru and stonehenge with the grand temple. It would also help if you adopt a pantheon like +1 faith to desert or tundra without forests. I finish it off in 0 AD with itenerant preachers. If the capital of a civ is dominated by a religion before it can make one it will happily adopt it. Another bonus is since you are wonder focusing I usually go for divine inspiration (+2 Faith for each wonder) then holy warriors to protect my lands from invaders and save production for wonders. Hope this helps . I gained +100 faith in 300 AD with this setup.