Planning for the Great Lighthouse (or not)

[donsig]

zyxy's previous estimate put the completion of the Great Lighthouse at around turn 93 - 23 turns from now. While we are not assured of getting it, I think we should have a plan in place to use it to our best advantage should we build it. By the same turn we should be prepared with a plan of action should someone else build it.

Here's the current status of our cities:

The Admiralty is on a palace prebuild for the Great Lighthouse.
The Chamber is making another worker but will soon switch back to settlers.
The Gulag is now on worker duty.
The Silo is on a granary prebuild for the forbidden palace.
The Treasury is making warriors but will soon start a prebuild for the Sistine Chapel.
The Bayou and The Ways are building ships.

We'll have map making in a couple turns and so our two ship building towns will start on galleys at that time. It looks like we'll have two ready by the time turn 93 rolls around. Assuming we get the GLH, what units should we put on these galleys and where should they go? If we don't get the GLH, then what do we do with the galleys? Finally, What is to be done with The Admiralty after it builds the GLH? If we miss it then we switch to the GLib and maybe slow the spt so we can build the Chapel there? Do we take a shield loss and build the Collossus?

I think it's important that we build an overall strategy around the GLH (or non GLH if we lose it) and tie in our city building plans, etc. For example, if we get the GLH then do we take our time settling the islands or do we rush to try to get them all? If we don't get the GLH do we give up on the islands or push to occupy the two closest to us?

I've still not gotten a complete handle on our world shape. I know all four of the other large islands are equidistant to us but it appears of the five minor islands, two are closer, though I could have this wrong. There may also be even smaller islands along the beta route.

I think we have some good things to discuss here while we wait to see where the torch ends up.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think if we miss the GLH, we build SoZ. This will help keep us safe from the terrifying hordes who want to overrun us with fast galleys and MW/GS.

Sistine is nice, but survival is nicer, and we can build sistine in a city that can get larger if we want.

 

[peter grimes]

I'm not familiar with Conquests, so I'd like a little explanation:
I understand that the Statue of Zeus produces 1 Ancient Cavalry every 5 turns.

How long does that go on for?
Would we have to pay the unit upkeep?
If so, are we worried about that crippling our economy?
Are we able to gift any of them to Free?

 

[donsig]

The Statue of Zeus is made obsolete by metallurgy so that must be when the special units cease being made. I'm not sure about the upkeep but I think they count as units so we would have to pay any upkeep due. As for gifting to FREE I don't think we can swap military units. If we could we wouldn't be able to do so until sea routes open up - at least that's what I remember from the last MTDG when there was talk of trading workers.

 

[General_W]

Yeah, the Soz produces Ancient Cavalry, a 3.2.2 unit with +1 Hit points... ie, totally awesome. They're free every 5 turns, but we do have to pay unit upkeep.

Still, since they work perfectly as swordsmen, spearmen, and Horsemen all rolled into one, we can easily just disband any other units if our costs get too high.
SoZ will stop producing at Metallurgy. But that's a nice long time. Even if we go straight there, it's going to take Engineering, Feudalism, Invention, Gunpowder, and Chemistry once we're out of the AA.
And I'd say that expiring at Metallurgy is an ideal time - since our Hwacha's come with Metal, we can just transition from one great defender to another.

If we lose the Great Lighthouse, we're going to be in serious danger, and I think the SoZ will be our absolute best fall-back plan. At 300 shields, it’s the exact same cost as the Torch, and we won’t waste anything in switching to it.

Save the Sistine Chapel pre-build for another city. The SoZ is more powerful the sooner we can get it… we can basically shut off any other military builds with it! And it’ll make our enemies with the Torch think twice about invading us.

Only way I can see the Chapel making sense out of the Admiralty is if FREE is the one to get the Great Lighthouse.

My 2 cents anyway!

 

[tomasjj]

Remember that it will take time for others to find us, even with GLH, as they are likely not to have cracked the map structure....or maybe the others are as smart as Aigburth too?

 

[Aigburth]

I quite like SOZ however what about The Pyramids? It is only an extra 100 shields I think and is one of the most powerfull wonders in the game.

 

[sirdanilot]

THE PYRAMIDS
Cost: 400
Technology Required: Masonry
Other Requirements: None
Rendered Obsolete By: None
Traits: Industrious, Religious, Agricultural
Effect: Places a granary in every city on the same continent. Tourist Attraction.
Culture: 4

I don't think that is going to count for many of our cities. But I guess we could try...

 

[Paul#42]

I don't think that is going to count for many of our cities. But I guess we could try...

There is NO better place to build it than on our continent.
And it is the one most powerful wonder in the ancient age.
On an island with 25 towns it will spare you 25x60=1500 shields of bulding and 25gpt of upkeep for the rest of the game. Having a granary in a just founded town is a huge benefit. Just as having barracks right away with Sun Tzu's if you are a warmonger.
However you won't build granaries in every town but it's the only improvement to better use the most important resource in the game.

And it only works on our continent which makes it even more attractive than The Great Library eg which would be interesting for distant enemies, too.

However it's quite expensive and I would rather switch to SoZ or Colossus - if we are not too far above 200 shields. If we are close to 300, Pyramides are the best.
Hanging Gardens is not too horsehockey, but I'd only build that if the other four are gone.

So my orders of preference:
>250 shields collected: GLH > Pyra > SoZ > Colossus > HG
<249 shields collected: GLH > SoZ > Colossus > Pyra > HG

The Pyras I'd build any time first if we get a SGL (Maybe rush GLH in The Bayou and build Pyras in The Academy even if that hurts its pride...).

 

[donsig]

Lots of good points made here. I think what we switch The Admiralty to if we lose the GLH depends not only on how many shields we have invested at that point but also on who does get the GLH. I think if BABE or GONG get it then we should go with SoZ no matter what. Either would then think long and hard before coming here. If FREE gets the GLH then I don't think we have to be so defensive minded and can explore other options. It's a bit trickier if SABER gets the GLH. I don't think they'd be as apt to go on an early rampage as BABE and GONG, so I'm thinking we could also shop around if we have to switch.

I was hoping we'd also discuss a couple other things here, one being how much priority do we give (and how much effort do we put into settling the islands) if we lose the GLH?

Also, and more importantly, what do we do if we win the race and actually build the GLH? A library for The Admiralty and then the colossus? A library and then galleys? Straight to galleys for a bit? Do we stick warrior/settler pairs on every available ship and colonize the islands or do we take our time assuming we have a lock on them? I'm really not sure how building cities on the islands should fit into our city placement plans. Would civilizing the islands before settling our main landmass increase the corruption at home?

 

[General_W]

My personal thoughts on the backup wonder are more inline with Donsig.
ie, base the backup plan on who gets the Great Lighthouse, not on how many shields are in the bin.

If BABE or GONG gets the GLH&#8230; then I think we need the SoZ.
If FREE gets the GLH&#8230; then they Pyramids sound great.
If SABER gets it&#8230; I&#8217;m not as sure. I guess the Ottomans really aren&#8217;t that scary till Military Tradition&#8230; so Pyramids are still pretty nice.

If we DO get the Great Lighthouse - then I think we should take full advantage of it and get a lot of Galleys out, and try to settle some of the smaller islands.

Colossus is a great wonder, but I&#8217;d build it in the Capital or nowhere. (can we build it in the capital? )

 

[donsig]

I don't think our capital is coastal so no colossus (or GLH) there.

 

[donsig]

If we DO get the Great Lighthouse - then I think we should take full advantage of it and get a lot of Galleys out, and try to settle some of the smaller islands.

Should we play it safe with the galleys we build before the GLH is built? Here's another question - will we be in the middle ages by the time the torch is built (around turn 93 - 20 turns from now)? If we research horseback riding after construction that should take 13 turns. If we have to research currency it'll be close. If we trade for currency (with SABER) then we'll most certain be in the MA by the time the torch is available. I ask because we still have a hut on the big island that could give one last shot at a free tech if we get there soon enough.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

what about polytheism? who is researching that? That's not a cheap tech.

I'd like to be pretty safe with the galleys - keep 'em relatively close and use them as magnets for the barbs.

I was also thinking - we should be sure to try to get the barb camps gone before the MA...

 

[peter grimes]

That's right: Massive Barbarian Uprising at the Era change!!!

 

[donsig]

what about polytheism? who is researching that? That's not a cheap tech.

I'd like to be pretty safe with the galleys - keep 'em relatively close and use them as magnets for the barbs.

I was also thinking - we should be sure to try to get the barb camps gone before the MA...

FREE is supposed to research poly. I also think we should play it safe with our galleys until we know where the torch ends up. And I definately agree about clearing the barb camps beforw the middle ages set in. When that will happen depends on the extent of our trading with SABER and /or our luck in popping a free tech.

 

[donsig]

Nine turns t the Great Lighthouse! We have two galleys in the water. Not sure if we'll have any more ready in nine turns.

FREE had a revolution. They're not religious so cannot count on a short anarchy. In any event I don't think we've given them map making yet so it would seem they are not trying too hard (if at all) to build the reat lighthouse. SABER doesn't have map making either (IIRC). Could it be these two are not competing with us for this wonder? We can only sit and wonder if BABE or GONG have seen the light are are trying to build the torch. In a little more than a week we should know.

 

[Paul#42]

Yes, by their revolt I'd tell FREE is not building it. Or they are so far from completing that the Republic bonus would make up for the anarchy - that' would be defintely more than 10 turns.

SABER however might be, while I consider it extremely unlikely. MM is not a key tech on the way to Republic so they would at least ask us before researching it on their own...
Or did we rule a trade for MM out at one time?

So chances are quite good.

I'm surprised to see so little wonder activity in this game.

 

[Aigburth]

It will be funny to see if anyone completes collosus the turn after we complete the lighthouse! (assuming we are successful of course)

 

[zyxy]

FREE has MapMaking, we gave it to them some time ago. SABER does not, and I would bet they are researching the Republic. So by donsigs analysis, neither of them is building the Torch.

Of course we don't know about the other two teams.