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Plant Forest

LawLessOne

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
76
Whatever happened to this worker ability? It was a reasonable ability wasnt it? I sometimes find myself wanting a lumber mill in a area where all the forests have been cleared.

If it is a matter of generating extra hammers, just make it take a long time to replant the forest.
 
Im not sure how it was in civ3, but id imagine you cannot plant forests because of the ability to chop for production. This basically means there is no downside to chopping... coz u can simply plant it again.
 
Sounds like real life. ;) As long as it takes a reasonable amount of time to plant it or for it to grow after planting, I wouldn't see anything wrong with it. They could balance the time to regrow such that you gain more production by having a forest with a lumbermill over the same time than you do from a cycle of growing and chopping down.
 
There is a wonderful little mod in the mods forum that allows you to plant or replant forest. It takes 25 turns and the plot has to be worked in the city screen to avoid exploits. Great addition.
 
I like the idea of Plant Forest, but something like that could make the Lumbermill obsolete...
I like the idea, though it should take many many turns that way we could actually still use the Lumbermill :p
 
Ratsock said:
Im not sure how it was in civ3, but id imagine you cannot plant forests because of the ability to chop for production. This basically means there is no downside to chopping... coz u can simply plant it again.
In Civ3 you could replant forrest, but if you chopped it down again, you got no production from it. It seems reasonable for Civ4 to have this same option.
 
one of the reasons Civ 3 had it was because having forests in un-used areas helped to slow pollution. Civ 4 did away with pollution, which did away with the _need_ to replant forests.

Forest planting should be available with agriculture, and a lumbermill on a forest should be a provider for a "paper" resource. If we have the ablity to replant forests, the trade off should be that lumbermills will eventually deplete a forest. 25 turns is too long either way. 10 turns to deplete, 3-5 turns to plant is more reasonable. "Working" the forest makes no difference. The way to keep people from abusing this is to simply reduce the hammer bonus from chopping the forest in the first place. If a lumbermill produces 2 hammers for 10 turns, then chopping the forest should return no more than 10 hammers - making it better to have the lumbermill in the long term, but still giving you the short-term boost.

This also gives your workers something to maintain in case they get bored.

- Sligo
 
I've seen it suggesting that replanting could become possible with a latter tech, like medicine or something.
 
I would make sense that with certain techs beyond agriculture, forest planting may get more efficient. I was thinking ecology would be appropriate.
 
I was thinking that, but it's in the last bracket before future tech, so in many cases you wouldn't have much chance to use it after Ecology.
 
I see no problem with planting a forest and forcing you to wait for say... 20 turns prior to being able to take advantage of the tile as a "forest" tile.

maybe take 6 turns to plant, and then another 20 to grow. You need no work the tile, just have it planted... For those 26 years it gives you only "undeveloped resources" from that tile... until that final year... and then you could chop/lumbermill, etc... as you see fit.

Why not? it's like re-seeding a forest!!!! Think of it like a cottage/village/town except you need not work the tile, but you must wait ## of years before getting ANY benifit of the planting. (vs. the small upgrades over the course of working a cottage tile)
 
Alternatively, they could add consumable unit for that. It would accomplish the result and make it impossible to exploit as long as the unit is more expensive than 20 production.

...or make a really expensive one that can plant forest over desert.

Another option is to allow construction of *really* high maintenance improvement that converts into a forest after a certain number of turns (depending on a terrain). Make the total amount of gold large enough to make it economically unfeasible to replant and chop down.
 
Maybe have it so the worker spends 5 turns on the tile planting seeds and then the tile has as sort of progress bar until it's a full forest again, maybe say 15 turns to finish the deal in all? Until a forest is mature, the tile cannot be worked, nor can a lumber mill be built nor can it be chopped.

Maybe to offset the potential for abuse, just making cutting-down forests no longer yield hammers at all after maybe Steam Power or something. By then it gets used so infrequently anyway as a means to rush buildings.
 
One of the biggest exploits from Civ3 that I'm glad is gone. Even the nerfed version where you could only earn production once is still too powerful.

The issue is twofold

1) It takes an OCD human player to want to plant/chop forests for free production on every fresh tile
2) Even if the AI could be programmed to do it, it would need workers to do it, and we all know humans manage workers better than the AI. And as workers can be captured, planting forests just rewards the warmongers even more by making wars even more profitable.

I'm glad it's gone. It's a gamey element that was broken because its benefits are exclusively for the human players only.
 
Whatever happened to this worker ability? It was a reasonable ability wasnt it? I sometimes find myself wanting a lumber mill in a area where all the forests have been cleared.

If it is a matter of generating extra hammers, just make it take a long time to replant the forest.
I agree this would be good to have back and I think it would also be best to have a two tier worker ability like we used to have. The later era worker (used to be engineer) could plant forests, and terraform and early era workers could only do what workers do now.

Im not sure how it was in civ3, but id imagine you cannot plant forests because of the ability to chop for production. This basically means there is no downside to chopping... coz u can simply plant it again.
Easy solution is to make it so only later era workers (used to be engineers) can plant forests (unlocked with a tech, or era) and early era workers cannot. After all, chopping is only really helpful to productions in the early game.
 
I noticed something rather amusing : didn't you notice that we have two means to do the exact same thing ? You have workers that can chop forests : it grants instant production bonuses because wood have been in all times a great ressource. On the other side, you have city workers : when they work a forest tile, they produce few production per turn. But working a forest tile can mean either hunting and collecting raw materials of different kind, wood included (chopping), and that last bit leaves no doubt when we know that a lumber mill increases forests raw materials. So we have unit choppers, and citizen choppers. Isn't that a little too much ?

OK, the first provides an instant and subtantial benefit, while the second a very moderated per turn benefit, but can't one or the other of those two different operations (which is represented by the exact same reality aspect) be both devoted to one or the other concept ? For example, why couldn't a city worker instant chop (in the same amount of turns a worker now does it), or why a worker wouldn't be able to infinitely plant/chop forest, beside the micromanagement aspect of this ?

In the same vein, why farms should be created by workers, while the "citizens" (which are in fact peasants) could and should do it on their own ?

We see here two redundant concepts : wouldn't it be possible to streamline this a little ? Of course, one could think it would be tricky to charge the workers of all the tasks : it would be a micromanagement fest and very unpleasant to play. So, why not delegate all the tasks to citizens ?

One could imagine that when a citizen works a tile, he starts to transform it, or maybe transforms it immediately according to the task he wants to do. OK, there would be far less "things to do", but it would IMHO alleviate the old game mechanics in order to create new more relevant ones.

The worker system is as much old as the series. It was there only to give the player something to do, because at start, Civ was not a strategy game, it was only a civilization simulation, with little units to move. It was meant to be a garden, ridiculously easy to play, you just had to know that you could create units and move them. Now ,there have been complaints. Some players begged that it was always about the same strategies. Incidally ! Civ was not a strategy game. But it became one.

So I think that, Civ being now a strategy game, we could streamline it a little. Workers do not marvel anyone anymore. On contrary, they are micromanaging, just that. How to create roads ? With an ingame editor. Maybe roads aren't build immediately, but they would cost money. Etc... How do you enslave other entities workers ? You enter a worked enemy city tile with your armies, and the city population of said city is reduced by 1, while a city of your choice improve its population by the same 1. (plus it would encourage field battles greatly)
 
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