Planting Spies

[donsig]

Looks to me like the *winner* of this poll is plant spies later. The domestic leader is justified in with-holding funds for the planting of spies. I would hate to start a war based on this poll.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cyc


And thank you for the support, Eyrei.

You are welcome. We are still not quite even, so expect a couple more of those anytime you trip up a little.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
Looks to me like the *winner* of this poll is plant spies later. The domestic leader is justified in with-holding funds for the planting of spies. I would hate to start a war based on this poll.

I have to disagree. Both of the first two options contain "Now", the meaning of which is quite clear. However, because additional polls have to be posted, it cannot possibly happen 'now'. I am not interesting in mincing words or invoking the constitution. The sentiment of the citizenry is quite clear. I am sure those who voted to plant spies everywhere right now would be happy to see spies posted in at least a few of our neighbor's capitals.

 

[Falcon02]

I think polling for each nation is the best option. It gives a Definate Yes/No Result and no further polls will be needed.

 

[donsig]

If we're going to risk starting a war over this poll we'd best get to mincing those words.

Anyone look at the title of this poll?

It says:

When should we consider planting spies?

Considering the planting of spies now is not the same as planting them now.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
If we're going to risk starting a war over this poll we'd best get to mincing those words.

Anyone look at the title of this poll?

It says:

When should we consider planting spies?

Considering the planting of spies now is not the same as planting them now.

I think I will start a poll on whether or not everyone understood what was meant when they voted.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by eyrei

I think I will start a poll on whether or not everyone understood what was meant when they voted.

Another quote from the initial post of this poll:

If the most popular is:
Now. Everywhere, - We'll attempt to place spies everywhere.
Now. Not Everywhere, - I'll set up a poll to see where we will now.
Later, - I'll ask again after a few rounds.
Never, - I shall bury the subject and burn those who bring it up (j/k) But I won't bring it up unless promted to or situation begs for it.

The most popular option is *Later*. The subject should be dropped for awhile.

 

[eyrei]

Regardless of that wording, like I said, if it was a poll between "Now, but polls will be posted for each nation." and "Later", the most popular option would have been the former. It was good that the option, "Now, and place them everywhere." was included because a significant number of people feel that way. The proper way to conclude this is exactly what CP said he was going to do. I hope there are no objections to that, at least.

 

[donsig]

If our esteemed FA leader was going to do what he said he was going to do then he would abide by his own poll and drop the subject for now and *ask again after a few rounds*.

 

[Falcon02]

We need to get Shaitan's View on this, in essence he's the interpretor of the Consitution. Whether this poll is valid is basically the biggest question. If it's been invalidated then the repolls are appropriate. If it's demed Valid then we need to go with the Results, however by taking no action yet, CP will be following the poll, next Turn chat could be concidered "Later" and therefore, CP will be following the poll, just repolling "later" would be sooner then we thought.

 

[eyrei]

This is absurd. To attempt to invalidate this poll because it did not comply with your opinion on the matter is criminal. I ask Chiefpaco to post the individual polls for each nation ASAP so that we may resolve this matter. Each of those polls should include the word "immediately" to avoid confusion. The results of these polls should then be followed in the turn chat following tonight's. If you do not like that we are going to plant spies, you need to get used to living in a democracy, because 15 people voted to plant spies now, not 8. This is common sense, no more and no less.

 

[donsig]

Don't accuse me of trying to invalidate a poll because it doesn't comply with my opinion. I'm arguing that the poll should be followed. It is Chiefpaco who wrote the poll then tried to invalidate it because it doesn't conform to his (and apparently eyrei's) opinion.

 

[Cyc]

I can't believe you people are still argueing over this. I left, had a great Lunch (carne asada), come back, and have to listen to this?
It's a dead issue. Agreed, cp needs to poll later. We don't have rounds (other that the boxing match here), so it's cp's interpretation as to when. Give it a rest.

 

[donsig]

Eyrei and I haven't had a good round of sparring since term two.

Anyway, Cyc, is this a valid binding poll or isn't it?

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
Eyrei and I haven't had a good round of sparring since term two.

Anyway, Cyc, is this a valid binding poll or isn't it?

Hehe. We got along far too well when we both held high offices.

 

[chiefpaco]

As it stands now, the most popular single option is indeed "Later" (in fact, that is even what I voted). However, I feel a repolling is necessary. I have no clear direction of what to do as a result of this poll. Because of my own making, the poll was confusing from the time it started. Then I made it worse by suggesting options be combined, which should be illegal.

I feel the best way to scrap this poll and proceed is as I proposed. I submit the following reasons why this poll should be scrapped:
a) It is too late to incorporate the "now" (3rd place vote anyway).
b) Poorly worded poll with duplicate answers unfairly splitting the vote. It clearly confused some voters on record here.
c) A very split issue where no clear majority was made. Shouldn't the poller have a right to repoll in this case? (38% support is the highest poll possibility)
d) Opportunity to repoll clearly on each issue means that everyone gets a second chance to vote.
e) I made a huge mess of it confusing voters with a combined voting proposal mid-way through the vote.

By issuing separate and clear polls, I think I may best serve every citizen to once again come to the polls and decide where our spies may go, if anywhere. If people feel that I am bound to wait a few rounds before repolling, the new polls may then be stricken and no spies planted. However, I wish to think my way is the most democratic.

 

[chiefpaco]

Anyway, that is my plea. Don't we have a judge or something now? We may need an outsider to resolve this.

 

[donsig]

I'm not so sure seperate polls for each country is desirable. Planting a spy may cause a war and MPPs may widen any actual conflict. Perhaps a specific proposal should be polled. Try to plant spies in A, B and C on turn 0, try x number of times if we fail on first try. We also need a contingency war plan.

 

[chiefpaco]

I agree that spies should not be placed for the reasons you gave. However, I'd rather put the decison fairly to the citizens and a separate poll for each allows the most flexibility for any possibility, IMO.

As for implementing the "plant", I suggest I open a thread to discuss it. I'm not sure we could come up with a plan or consensus, but I think I should open a thread for it.

 

[Cyc]

I had no idea that was the way you voted. Bravo, chiefpaco. You continue to amaze me. Sorry about the politician joke...