Play civs with early special units

[Anklecarp]

Stayed up 'till 3am playing CivIII last night--so far it looks like a worthy successor to the REAL civ title.

I haven't finished a complete game yet, but I want to get some feedback on something that occured to me after my entire military (comprised of archers and spearmen) was badly beaten up by a bunch of Elite Jaguar Warriors (Aztec special unit). Basically, I was taken out of the game by these Jaguar dudes, and it made me think that civs with potent special units early in the game have a huge advantage. We all know how critical the early stages of the game were in Civ 2, and I assume early game success will be as important in CivIII also. So who cares if the Americans will have the F-15 special unit late in the game? I'll play the Aztecs and, with the immediate advantage of the Jaguar Warrior and an aggressive early game, the Americans will never live to produce an F-15. Small effects early in the game create gigantic differences later on... might it therefore be smart to play the civs that have special units early in the game (like the Aztecs)?

Reactions? Remember, I still have not finished a CivIII game yet (Although I've played hundreds of Civ1 and Civ2 games).

 

[nekulturny]

I'm only at the middle ages (knights coming out in about 2 turns) and I totally agree. Having the F15 or the Panzer or even the Cossacks later on won't count for much if you can't get your first 10 or 20 cities down and your claim for space out there. Another advantage of the early uniques is the golden age they give you. That really, really helps with getting a wonder finished and some settlers built. The biggest problem I was having at first was getting settlers built without leaving my cities at size 1. The golden age fixes that.

 

[zandar]

I know yer all sick of hearing me say this, but resources are the key. Jaguar Warriors require no strategic resources to make, neither do Bowmen or Impi. Early unique units are an advantage. Ealry unique units that require no resources, meaning that you can ALWAYS build them regardless of lack of Iron or Horses early in the game are a MAJOR advantage. This is why the playtesters often had the most success with Civs like the Aztecs and Zulus. They ALWAYS have access to their uniques during the Era they can make the difference in the game.

Unlike AoE, UU's aren't always produced at the end of the tech tree in the final age. As the Aztecs or Zulus, or Babylonians (with their Bowmen) the Ancient Era expansion rush is not only a smart idea, but vital.

The Americans may someday have the F-15...but not if you control the Aluminum or Oil because you have more land from successful Ancient Era mass expansion...with Ancient Era UU civs, you'll get to USE your unit to a large extent. With the Americans and Germans...you may be dead already because you got wiped by Immortals, War Elephants, or Samurai well before your UU's get out.

It's a MAJOR imbalance if you ask me. By the late Industrial/Modern era, the game's pretty much over for you unless you are controlling the resources, and if you're not, you're locked in a war with somebody who does have them.

 

[Kev]

While I agree as to the advantage of having some special units early, I don't think it's as lopsided as one may think. Of course, my game experiences (of any length of time ) have been on easier levels, but thus far my two efforts at being the Americans went rather well. Likely, at higher levels there may be a bit more imbalance. Also, this assumes that you'll be sharing space with someone right from the getgo. Perhaps if you're the Aztecs you can use the Jags to give you a good foothold on your home continent, but what happens later when you try to go elsewhere and have to deal with a blockade of Man-o-Wars (or is it Men-o-War )?

Agreed, I think in every game thus far I've been on a land mass with one or more civs to deal with, but I've also found it better to go for tech and culture while expanding as war can be draining and difficult to wage this early on. I just send settlers to their borders and expand backwards.

In my latest, I share a continent with Aztecs, Zulus, Iriquois, and Persians - all with some early UU's (can't remember what the Iriquois' is, but I believe it's early). My technique was to play nice and build culture. I also plunked settlers down in key spots to keep others from being able to expand in my direction as best I could. In meetings, I was nice but didn't have to give away anything I thought unfair or "appeasing" - though I likely would have until it was safe.

The result was I was able to get to 1200 AD thus far and not have one single battle. My culture and tech were enough to keep the others at bay, and a few of their cities joined up with me.

Here's the gig: Once I had iron and the ability to make swordmen, IMO the advantage of the Jags and Impis was overwith - and that was pretty early for me. Actually, a vet spearman can give a jag a good battle, and if there are walls there you can be pretty safe. Further, if they had taken a city or two, unless they razed the city my culture was bound to switch it back.

Another point: I'm not sure about the connection between a Golden Age and unique units as nekulturny writes. About 1100 AD, about midway through the second age, my American civ went through a Golden Age. Seems I had just got gunpowder or Democracy or something. Don't know why it was triggered, but it was nice. Certainly no F-15's about at that time.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Your golden age was likely caused by a wonder. If you build wonders that correspond to your two characteristics (expansionist and industrial for the Americans) you get a golden age.

 

[Kev]

Thanks, Chris:

I've since read that wonders do indeed trigger the Golden Ages. It was probably from building the Lighthouse and Colossus or something.

Is there only one Golden Age given in a game, or with later wonders would a civ be able to experience several? I Wonder....

 

[Phorever Phalanx]

My current game (as Egyptians) is going quite well. After the initial land grab, I traded the Greeks for horses (idiots) and built about 30 war chariots before they cancelled the agreement. War chariots are really cheap (about the same as a warrior?)

After kicking some Greek butt and getting the horse resource, I ran into German pikeman, which needed 3-4 chariots each. I built Leo's (which reduces the cost of upgrades), ramped up my treasury, then updated the chariots to knights at $50 a pop. They did lose their veteran status, but I soon had a smaller force of 10 veteran and elite knights that took out the Germans.

It seems like battlefield upgrades to veteran or elite only happen when you come close to losing the battle (ie, you are yellow or red at the end.) I have not yet had a great leader. It's difficult to get an elite unit to fight someone that can cause damage but not too much? Has anyone had a great leader yet?

 

[dozenlong]

I have been playing as the Greeks and the Hoplite saved my butt--in this game I forgot to make embassies for a LONG time, and the entire world as at war with me, and attacking one of my cities with chariots, horsemen, and swordsman. Two hoplites defended that city for about 30 turns until I figured out to make embassies with everyone, establish peace, and get them out of my face that way.

 

[FrosTi]

Originally posted by Anklecarp
Stayed up 'till 3am playing CivIII last night--so far it looks like a worthy successor to the REAL civ title.

I haven't finished a complete game yet, but I want to get some feedback on something that occured to me after my entire military (comprised of archers and spearmen) was badly beaten up by a bunch of Elite Jaguar Warriors (Aztec special unit). Basically, I was taken out of the game by these Jaguar dudes, and it made me think that civs with potent special units early in the game have a huge advantage. We all know how critical the early stages of the game were in Civ 2, and I assume early game success will be as important in CivIII also. So who cares if the Americans will have the F-15 special unit late in the game? I'll play the Aztecs and, with the immediate advantage of the Jaguar Warrior and an aggressive early game, the Americans will never live to produce an F-15. Small effects early in the game create gigantic differences later on... might it therefore be smart to play the civs that have special units early in the game (like the Aztecs)?

Reactions? Remember, I still have not finished a CivIII game yet (Although I've played hundreds of Civ1 and Civ2 games).

I agree, but for me it was not the jaguar warrior but the Zulu Impi... Playing Aztecs or Zulus give you a big advantage if you like to destroy your ennemies early... But if you prefer to expand as much of you can and switch to a high production governement (republic, democracy) then you would be better to take a civilization who gets their special units later...