Playing the Mercurians

[Caradoc]

Next time the opportunity arises, I'd like to try playing the Mercurians. (I've had them as allies before and was pretty disappointed with their performance.) How should I prepare for the big day? Obviously, I want to provide them with the best possible city and the techs they need, but still they will have very limited resources compared to the better developed civilizations. Basium will be starting at a low level and I will have no support troops, only angels.

After the switch, I will no longer control my original civilization and therefore will be unable to make gifts to them. Is there any way to jumpstart the Mercurians so that they stand a chance of prevailing?

I'm thinking that there could be a quick Alters victory since the Great Person counter should be reset, so I will try to create a city that will crank out Great Prophets.

 

[SwordofStriker]

In the one game I played where Basium was present, he had no problem getting more troops. As a matter of fact, he was getting quite a few angels every turn and very soon had a massive army of them.

If you want a jumpstart, start a war between some good aligned nations before you finish the Mercurian Gate. That will insure you a steady supply of angels.

 

[xienwolf]

I swapped over to Basium once while playing as Elohim. Wasn't planning to swap to him so I had given him a horrible city, but when I did swap, I was on a team with Elohim, and each turn she was opening a trade window and gifting me another resource. It was quite nice.

 

[wilboman]

Yeah, the best jump start you can get for Basium is a lot of good civs (and loads of Order and Runes state religions), preferably trying hard to kill eachother, or at least fighting a running war with some bad guys. Then you'll be drowning in angels. And you are one of the two civs that actually benefits from Armageddon. Loads, and loads, and loads of angels for free thanks to the rubber band mechanic.

 

[nealhunt]

My shot at it would be:

Build a strong tech civ to support you since you'll be allied and starting with a one-city civ. Make sure you bag a holy city and build the shrine. Build the Mercurian Gate in the holy city so you take it with you when you switch to the Mercurians. Alternately, use a high production city and make sure it's backed with all the buildings before you build the gate. If you luck out and found a religion in a high production city, you get the best of both worlds.

Try to have a standing army but if you don't, switch to pure military production as soon as Hyborem appears because you will soon be at war.

A few questions:

How do you assure that Hyborem will definitely be brought into the game so you can switch? Timing on that seems to be iffy. Is it feasible to summon Hyborem yourself, then switch to a different alignment and summon Basium?

Can you build the Mercurian Gate if Hyborem has already been killed? If so, you might plan a Hyborem-killing force to pound him as soon as he appears, then summon Basium at your leisure.

What would happen if you founded the Veil, then changed religions and built the Gate in the holy city of the Veil?

What victories are feasible? You have an allied civ you will create pre-summoning, but it's still late enough in the game that options are somewhat limited.

 

[Vittra]

I built the Mercurian Gate in the holy city of the veil and order (I summoned Hyborem myself).

Basium does the same as the Infernals do, cancels the opposing religion in the city for as long as they own it. If someone else were to take it from you, the Veil would pop back up.

 

[Mortenart]

It would be nice if you could upgrade Angels to higher forms of Angels when they reach certain levels. At the moment, it`s kind of dull just having one fighting unit if you want to play Basium. And maybe some other nice shiny creatures from the Angelic Host.

 

[wilboman]

There'll be a bunch of different angels soon, but they won't be upgradeable. What angels you get depend on what good units die.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

? I was under the impression that angels did upgrade to higher forms of angels. It was that way in pre-BtS FfH, is it not still so? If what angel you can have is based solely on what other civ's units die, then the mercurians are seriously underpowered. Why would they ever try to research anything? (besides economic and religious techs)

 

[wilboman]

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. It's been a good while since I've played the game myself

 

[zxcvbnm]

If the issue is that the angels can't become better with xp, then i doubt i'll get 0.25. As the mercurians i once got a level 11 angel and if it can't get lvl 12 to become a seraph, then it's as good as level 6, ruining a lot of their potential
Except if the angels are defined by the mortal units types instead of xp, but they could still be upgradeable

 

[MagisterCultuum]

How about building the Mercurian Gate in the same city as the Council of Esus (especially pre-patch L)? That way you can take your old cities back, and probably turn a lot of your old civ's units into your new Angels. True, your Angels themselves won't be HN units, but you can still build plenty of HN Disciple units, which can gather xp against your old civ and will return to you as angels once they are defeated.

Edit: I just tried it, and realized that in BtS (unlike vanilla) HN units can not attack your permanent allies. So, there goes that Idea. But still, as nice as that wonder is you would want to build in in the city destined for the Mercurian Gate (if you plan to switch) befor you switch, because production would be better before the switch.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Level 12 is very hard to reach for the upgrade. Barring Grigori adventurers, how do you nurture your angels to such a level?

 

[zxcvbnm]

Infernals killed lvl 10 hero, got it to lvl 11 but then lost in
The way to get lvl 12 units other than heroes is to take huge risks with new units and minimise them at lvl 4-5. In one game i found that i lost all 70% battles but won all 30% battles, gaining nice 10 xp. Especially enemy heroes should be engaged with (if you have enough) low level units, because if you lose, it doesn't hurt, if you win, you get tons of xp.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

My way is usually to cheat.

I also edited the XML to make Angels start with spirit guide (and most the higher angels with Flying), and added the Charismatic and Spiritual traits to both Basium and Hyborem. I usually build the Altar of the Luonnatar in the city with the Council of Esus (usually built before the Mercurian Gate) and attack friendly good civs with HN Paladins while I send the free angels I get into suicidal battles against the evil civs. All the xp from good units will eventually funnel into a few strong angels, who will become Seraphim, Ophanim, or Valkeries (I didn't give the other angels Flying, since Heralds' and Angels of Death's graphics don't have wings. I don't usually want to risk having such a strong unit die because its boat sinks )

The best way to get strong enough angels is to cheat, giving one of your cities all 7 Altars of the Luonnatar at once (for about 70 free xp) and building as many good disciple units as you can.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Without cheating getting lvl 8 is reasonably possible but anything over it, as long as spear-tank battles exist there's little chance. What i hate is that always the strongest unit is chosen to defend, even in hopeless situations or when a less experienced so less valuable unit would have 0.2% smaller win chance and bigger relative xp gain, and then spear-tank happens. Guardsmen are an exception but others than Bannor usually don't get them.

 

[fe6250]

Next time the opportunity arises, I'd like to try playing the Mercurians. (I've had them as allies before and was pretty disappointed with their performance.) How should I prepare for the big day? Obviously, I want to provide them with the best possible city and the techs they need, but still they will have very limited resources compared to the better developed civilizations. Basium will be starting at a low level and I will have no support troops, only angels.

After the switch, I will no longer control my original civilization and therefore will be unable to make gifts to them. Is there any way to jumpstart the Mercurians so that they stand a chance of prevailing?

I'm thinking that there could be a quick Alters victory since the Great Person counter should be reset, so I will try to create a city that will crank out Great Prophets.

Maybe you figured this out already but if you ask your original civ for resources, gold, etc... they will give you whatever you want. Another interesting method I've found playing Basium is to create my own maceman, get the mark of the phoenix and then use them in battle. Put them into battle against tough foes and you get an angel with experience plus your maceman back again! Do this again and get yet another more experienced angel.

Good luck!

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I declare war against another good civ that is weak just before I spawn. Thus, I get a large amount of Angels early on, along with some new cities. Also, try and tech as much as possible, as the techs carry over.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Maybe you figured this out already but if you ask your original civ for resources, gold, etc... they will give you whatever you want. Another interesting method I've found playing Basium is to create my own maceman, get the mark of the phoenix and then use them in battle. Put them into battle against tough foes and you get an angel with experience plus your maceman back again! Do this again and get yet another more experienced angel.

Good luck!

The phoenix gives one-time-only immortality, then the units are like usual, so this works only once, if I'm not mistaken. You would need immortals to do this but they aren't available to the mercurians
Of course if you have Basium as your ally you might be able to do this with immortals, but then you can't play with the funniest toys

 

[fe6250]

The phoenix gives one-time-only immortality, then the units are like usual, so this works only once, if I'm not mistaken. You would need immortals to do this but they aren't available to the mercurians
Of course if you have Basium as your ally you might be able to do this with immortals, but then you can't play with the funniest toys

I agree - mark of the Phoenix works only once - but you get two angels for the price of one. I thought Basium had a form of immortal called something else (can't remember the name off the top of my head) but perhaps I'm wrong there.