Policy Discussion: Piety

[BroOfTheSun]

Thanks. I wonder if this was a change from G&K to BNW, or I just imagined seeing it in the first place?

This is how it worked since G&K. They didn't change it with BNW.

 

[Anvari]

GEM didn't have the belief buildings purchasable without beliefs. Or faith-based opportunities (yet). I'm in general agreement though that the problem such things would solve is rather limited to not having something to spend it on (either units or useful buildings).

Afaik it was in on the last GEM Beta. And faith-opportunities too.

How would you solve the Faith-question?
What is Faith for you?
What role should it play and what makes it different from the other yields?

 

[xInVicTuSx]

Faith can be spent on great people. What's the problem?

I agree with this, the faith mountain gets cut into quickly by Great people in the late game, that's basically the entire point of late game faith. Once you set up everything and go into the industrial era GPs stop popping automatically so the faith can build up and give you a reserve to spend on great people you've unlocked with select policy choices giving you a final push for your strategy into late game.
BNW moving the Great person unlocks to the end of the tree rather than the GEM beginning basically solved the problem of late game faith hordes being too powerful because we could very easily cherry pick openers and get ALL THE GREAT PEOPLE!

 

[Anvari]

This isn't a question for Piety but normally, it shouldn't be a problem. Things like this are discussed here

 

[mystikx21]

Ahh. I didn't play the beta very much. I mostly copied over some of the easier changes and modded 1.13 after it was too unstable to get much play out of it (1.13 had major issues as well though via civup).

I'd be fine with that as an approach, but I would want to see them limited to one per city. I could see a "one per religion in city option", but I don't know how easy that is to code versus exclusivity.

Faith is typically a means to spend on great people and happiness (pagodas) in my games. I can see arguments for buying holy warriors as well, though I rarely have need for many more units. I'm not sure what you mean by "the faith question" as a result. If the solution was to allow the religious buildings or to change holy warriors to a policy, or to use opportunities, those would all resolve the question of what to do with large faith accumulations in the mid-late game prior to GP buying. That to me is the major issue with it as a yield is that it has a subsection of the game where it isn't doing anything that useful other than just filling up the bucket where it is otherwise a flexible option like gold.

As far as religion, there should be a greater interaction between faith as a yield and religion, which would be where effects on spread mechanics could come in. That could make it an interesting local effect and give some thought to putting up a temple or shrine in a border town, say.

 

[Anvari]

You already answered a bit of "the faith question". It's "what role should faith play in civ5" because you can't just invest something like +200 faith turn. There is simply not enough stuff. It feels a bit like gold on that part, if you have a religion up.

The main problem in my eyes is that you really use 10 GPs. In my current CEP game on speed Epic, i'm at turn 167 (95 B.C.) and i've got +102 Faith a turn. All religions got founded but only two other civs have a relevant faith/turn rate (Austria and Morocco), but both are combined less then 50 faith. I already need to spend 3.450 faith for one GP, despite having bought everything i could.

I went Policies Honor Opener, full Piety and full Tradition after that, working on Commerce right now
Beliefs are: +2 Faith from Quarries, +3 Gold for each city with my Religion (IMBA AS HELL!), +2 faith and tourism from World Wonder (got a few up with chopping), Mosques (CEP version is +4 faith, +2 culture and +1 happiness). Improvement is +500 faith from spending Great Persons (love it, super strong :>) and Reformation Belief will be the Holy Warrior-thing with "buy military units starting industrial era)

So yeah, 102 faith/turn from basically 3 cities (just founded nr 4) is super strong. I already have the most people under my doctrine. My religion has 34 cities, second one is Hinduism with 8, then Islam from Morocco with 7 and 5 from Austrias Catholicism.

 

[burningrave101]

While we're on the topic of purchasing GP's with faith, could we get an option to disable the auto purchase of Great Prophets after the first one has been expended to found a religion? There are times in the game when I want to pool my faith to purchase other things later on and the only way to stop Great Prophets from being born is to keep civilians parked in your cities.