PolSci 120: Genesis of an Alternative Structure

[ravensfire]

Most poistions shouldn't take much more than an hour or two a day,

Most. Hmm, that sounds dangerously close to some positions doing more than others, requiring more time. Oh my - don't tell me you actually agree with that, and not the totally balanced positions that you so stridently advocate!

-- Ravensfire

 

[Strider]

Most. Hmm, that sounds dangerously close to some positions doing more than others, requiring more time. Oh my - don't tell me you actually agree with that, and not the totally balanced positions that you so stridently advocate!

-- Ravensfire

No possible way to make every poistion perfectly balance, if I thought so I'd be an idoit. Even if I did think that way, I could always say that differant poistions will have differant workloads depending upon events in the game, which is the absolute truth. Also the reason why I said the second part of that post.

However, having extremely unbalanced poistions makes one leader dominate over others, and in a system where there suppose to be on equal terms, this doesn't work to well.

 

[ravensfire]

However, having extremely unbalanced poistions makes one leader dominate over others, and in a system where there suppose to be on equal terms, this doesn't work to well.

Oh come on now - you can't really think that say, Domestic is dominant over Culture because Domestic has more? What's next, worrying about one office taking over another one mid-game, over dominance?

There is nothing wrong with one office having more "power" than another office. That power comes with an increased amount of time and effort required. We have some citizens that thrive, and desire those circumstances. Give it to them. Provo showed last DG how a person with less time can divide up the roles of an office to others, allowing someone with less time to still run for that office.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Strider]

There is nothing wrong with one office having more "power" than another office. That power comes with an increased amount of time and effort required. We have some citizens that thrive, and desire those circumstances. Give it to them. Provo showed last DG how a person with less time can divide up the roles of an office to others, allowing someone with less time to still run for that office.

Okay, then tell me, why not make them all balanced out then? If a leader can just divide it up to make it to where almost anyone can do it, why keep them inbalanced? Is there any particular reason for this that I'm missing, or is this just because of a fancy?

 

[MOTH]

So your saying that a citizen should not beable to hold a certain offices because of a differant time commitment?

Yes, that's basically right. For example, there is no way I would ever run for President because I couldn't commit to the time needed for playing the save. Real Life affects different people in different amounts. If the positions are balanced it will also be tougher for a new player to get there feet wet in an "easy" position like culture or Infrastructure.

In RL Governments different positions have a lot different powers. The Secretary of State is much more powerful than the Secretary of Education for example. (Off Topic Liberal Rant: That's not the way it should be, Education is more important than Foreign Affairs)

I haven't seen most people consider the imbalances a significant problem that needs to be fixed.

Now for some constructive criticism. I hope you will consider this in the spirit of cooperation in which it is offered:

When reading most of your posts, even ones with which I agree, I get a feeling that you are being deliberately (sp?) obstinate and unwilling to understand the points being put forward. What's the solution? I don't know.

 

[Strider]

Now for some constructive criticism. I hope you will consider this in the spirit of cooperation in which it is offered:

When reading most of your posts, even ones with which I agree, I get a feeling that you are being deliberately (sp?) obstinate and unwilling to understand the points being put forward. What's the solution? I don't know.

I'm not being unwilling or uncoorprative. I just don't consider it might right to make a solution for someone else's idea. I have no idea what they were thinking at the time, or how they were forming it in there mind. What gives me the right to come in and make a solution that might be opposite of what they intended?

Nope, you fix the problems you make. Which is why I've been pointing out the problems in the alternative structure for the pass couple of weeks. However, what I find is that people are unwilling to fix the problems.

I've already fixed many of what I find to be my problems, I don't see anybody asking questions about my proposals, and I don't see anybody pointing out any problems with my proposals. Why is that? Because I look at what they say and try to find away to keep my main idea, while fixing the problem.

It's called critisim, and I will continue to do it untill they finally get there act together and fix it.

 

[Strider]

Yes, that's basically right. For example, there is no way I would ever run for President because I couldn't commit to the time needed for playing the save. Real Life affects different people in different amounts. If the positions are balanced it will also be tougher for a new player to get there feet wet in an "easy" position like culture or Infrastructure.

In RL Governments different positions have a lot different powers. The Secretary of State is much more powerful than the Secretary of Education for example. (Off Topic Liberal Rant: That's not the way it should be, Education is more important than Foreign Affairs)

I haven't seen most people consider the imbalances a significant problem that needs to be fixed.

In real life, differant poistions are wanted more than others. Also in RL, all of those poistions you mentioned are appointed (if were thinking of the same country). If we have imbalances inside of our game poistions, that makes it to where more people will want the powerful poistions, and no one will want the un-powerful one. So we have 5 people running in one election, and no one running in another.

 

[Provolution]

Well Strider warned you of a flamewar on the contitution, and he delivered on time.

 

[DaveShack]

Look at the bolded part... the BASED ON. Think about it for a long, long time. Then tell me... why the hell are you going over something that has almost nothing to do with the tradational form of government?

Umm, the 6 F-screens are the traditional government. That's the whole point of trying to come up with an alternative in the first place, to get rid of the idea that the positions need to match the F-screens.

This is where you screwed up, we are not one person. As such, what or how one person plays the game has nothing to do with how we play the game.

Excuse me for thinking other people besides myself play the game by coming up with a long term strategy and then following it. My bad...

No forethought, and your reasoning is illogical. Sorry, but I'm not that easy to brainwash.

I could reply to this, but would probably get a three day vacation. As such will let it go.

 

[Provolution]

Again, another showdown of our zealous polarities. We just need to redivide the External Consul into Military and FA/TA/Culture, and leave Finance/Tech and Domestic as new Consuls, as well as bringing the tech adjustment to from Commerce to Labor and FA/TA from Commerce to Expansion.

 

[Strider]

Umm, the 6 F-screens are the traditional government. That's the whole point of trying to come up with an alternative in the first place, to get rid of the idea that the positions need to match the F-screens.

Oh, wait, but didn't you just say that they were based on the F-screens? Now your saying it is the F-screens? There is a huge differance, we needed a starting point when working on our constitution, and the f-screens was the most reasonable starting place. Is the tradational anything like the f-screens? Nope not at all, we changed the base and added onto it. Also, alot of aspects of the game aren't even covered in the f-screens or covered over several differant ones. Settlers and workers being prime examples. Drafting citizens is another one.

Nope... it's far to differant to compare the two.

Excuse me for thinking other people besides myself play the game by coming up with a long term strategy and then following it. My bad...

Oh, I'm sure everyone makes long-term strategy's when playing Civ3. However, no one has two dozen other people making long-term strategy's for the game also. Not only that, but when you play the game, you have all the information you want and need within seconds. It's no so here, even with the information department, there is still going to be somethings that aren't on the forums.

Even with our best efforts, there is going to be imperfections and blotches. Things that a single person playing Civ3 won't have. One relatively small piece of information can change our entire plans, but if a consul accidently forgets to post that information, well you should get the picture now.