PolyCast Episode 303: "Intrinsic Motivation"

[DanQ]

[img=right]https://www.civfanatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/polycast_logo.jpg[/img] Forward march. The three hundred-and-third episode of PolyCast, "Intrinsic Motivation", features regular co-hosts Daniel "DanQ" Quick, Stephanie "Makahlua", Philip "TheMeInTeam" Bellew and Jason "MegaBearsFan" Grade with returning guest co-hosts Scott "AlphaShard" Dirk and Brian "Drusain". It carries a runtime of 59m59s.

The summary of topics is as follows:

- 02m50s | News
Mac and Linux Civilization VI players get pleasantly surprised with the release of the game's Rise and Fall expansion pack the month after their Windows brethren, but there's a catch; then, a typo invoking an English language idiom leads to "messing" with the "priorities" of the game's Artificial Intelligence... but to what end?
- 19m03s | Open Mic
Two-time guest co-host Brandon "bcaiko" Keith Hallmark calls, and messages, the show's panel for their take on his disappointment that is the base game of CivVI and whether or not its R&F expansion pack could compel him to return to the title.
- 41m05s | Miscellaneous
In February, Civilization VI: Rise and Fall Senior Producer Andrew Frederiksen and Lead Designer Anton Strenger chart the course of its development from earliest prototype to commercial release.

- Intro/Outro | Assorted
Puppy agreement, and filling in CivVI eras for more unit upgrades.

PolyCast is a bi-weekly audio production recording live every other Saturday throughout the year, in an ongoing effort to give the Civilization community an interactive voice; sibling show ModCast focuses on Civ modding, TurnCast on Civ multiplay.

 

[legalizefreedom]

I found interesting the comments about gameplay and how VI just wasn't appealing to some folks. I'm a builder and I have had a good time with VI, but it's certainly far from grabbing me. I've played far more BERT than VI since it's release (definitely not V as Dan suggests; that game left the HD the day VI installed never to return).

The early game is really slow in the first 100-200 turns. The only saving grace is exploration, but it takes forever to do anything in the early game unless you chop chop chop which is cheese.
District construction takes too much effort and doesn't really provide anything meaningful until buildings are constructed.

In my one game since R&F released diplomacy is barely working. Specifically being able to build relationships for a bare minimum of reasonably fair trading. I don't recall having issues in the base game, so something with the alliances must have entailed extensive changes. Also the joint war problem...
Agreed the BE comments worked well. One at a time spaced out slightly so you can continue to play while taking them in as you wish.

IMO V was way more of a disaster than BE at similar times in their development (considering BE was never finished ), but I do agree with the sentiment that faith in delivery of a well done game left a long time ago (somewhere in V's development). I thought G&K saved V, but maybe that's just because I could actually play the game without a crash every 20 min after that. I have 1400 hours in V, but I bet 400 of it was staring at a loading screen before G&K. BNW was a mixed bag despite adding a lot to the game play. Taking gold from the map was a mistake.

Having to line up the timing with tech and civic boosts as well as card system bonuses for things like purchasing tiles, building and upgrading units... and now moving governors around... it's a hassle. I'm somewhat neural on this actually since I like the strategy aspect, but the game plays me when I'm doing these things. It's less about what I want to do next and more about what the game wants me to do next.

They've also done some things right.
The leaders are great. Both the selection and the character animations are a big reason VI is interesting. Which makes the diplomacy issue stand out bigtime.

I can't commend Firaxis enough for bringing back wonder movies. These really add to the character of the game.

But overall, it has a long way to go before I'm really feeling it.

 

[Uberfrog]

I found Drusain's comments about intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation quite interesting. I like Rise & Fall, in large part because I like the quasi-role-playing aspects of the Golden/Dark Ages and the Era Score/Timeline features. Yet it's hard to disagree with the panel's assessment that if the core of Civ VI never quite clicked with you, there is basically nothing in the expansion that's going to make you a convert.

The points about the UI, in particular the diplomacy screen, are very good too. It's crazy that they go to all this effort to design these highly detailed and lively character models, only to have their interactions reduced at best to the same stock denunciations whenever they're upset about their agenda to at worst an essentially static pose with a text box. This was present in Civ V, perhaps more forgivably since the diplomatic options changed quite a bit after release, but they really should have learnt the lesson.

 

[DanQ]

I've played far more BERT than VI since it's release (definitely not V as Dan suggests; that game left the HD the day VI installed never to return).

I think you misheard me: I went back to playing IV, for multiplayer, after V's release but not back to V after VI's release -- similarly to you, V left my hard drive shortly after VI's release and hasn't returned... nor do I expect it to.

The early game is really slow in the first 100-200 turns.

Out of curiosity, what game speed do you play on? I play at Online speed, be it SP or MP, and I don't find the pace slow generally speaking.

District construction takes too much effort and doesn't really provide anything meaningful until buildings are constructed.

District cost scaling is indeed still to out of wack, if that's what you're getting at -- at least in part -- though they can provide meaningful yields where adjacency bonuses permit.

IMO V was way more of a disaster than BE at similar times in their development

I'll concur with that as well.

I like Rise & Fall, in large part because I like the quasi-role-playing aspects of the Golden/Dark Ages and the Era Score/Timeline features.

Same.

Yet it's hard to disagree with the panel's assessment that if the core of Civ VI never quite clicked with you, there is basically nothing in the expansion that's going to make you a convert.

As... biased as the following reaction will be: indeed.

 

[legalizefreedom]

I think you misheard me: I went back to playing IV, for multiplayer, after V's release but not back to V after VI's release -- similarly to you, V left my hard drive shortly after VI's release and hasn't returned... nor do I expect it to.


Out of curiosity, what game speed do you play on? I play at Online speed, be it SP or MP, and I don't find the pace slow generally speaking.


District cost scaling is indeed still to out of wack, if that's what you're getting at -- at least in part -- though they can provide meaningful yields where adjacency bonuses permit.

I believe you were referring to someone else's habits on going back to V. I did gather that was not the case for you personally.

I play on normal speed. Maybe I need to try Online...

What I don't get about districts is why is the district itself takes so much to produce and then the buildings are relatively cheap? (at least in my perception without having checked any numbers) Someone on these forums suggested the districts should basically be very low effort and the buildings higher to reflect the value provided and I have to agree. Average adjacency bonus is what, 3, similar to a middle building. The cost to construct the district shouldn't be more than an equivalent building. I understand the reasoning behind making, for example, campuses (or is it campi?) cost more the more you make, but they should be cheaper in the beginning. First 3 cities is a drag.

 

[DanQ]

I believe you were referring to someone else's habits on going back to V. I did gather that was not the case for you personally.

Ah 'k.

I play on normal speed. Maybe I need to try Online...

Once you try, then you'll know if that's a factor for you.

What I don't get about districts is why is the district itself takes so much to produce and then the buildings are relatively cheap? (at least in my perception without having checked any numbers)

I anticipate at least part of this perception is practical, given district cost scaling escalation as you progress through the technology tree is still present.