Pompeii, and how to take it over.

[superpelon]

It is Pelons humble opinion that we secure Pompeii ASAP. It has Iron and Horses, with combined give the romans (malditos romanos!!) Legions, Horsemen and later on, Knights. It also has a number of forests squares inhabited by strange insects, who produce a fine material known as SILK. We need silk for our geishas kimonos.

Since I am a declared Pacifist, I was wondering if it would be possible to culture-flip this city, if we settle the areas around it (as we should anyway, it cuts the continent in half) and invest enough in culture in those cities.

Is this possible??
If possible, is it worth the time and effort?

If not feisable... any other ideas??


SuperPelon, The Official Demogame Pelon.

 

[MSTK]

Better edit out "the word" before the mods punish you for it

The prize seems nice, but I'm a bit indecisive about the price to pay. Maybe if, on the course, we get two or three more cities prime for that purpose, we should definitely flip it. I'm not sure if we should go out of our way.

But I'm not really a good strategist...

Nice to see that my map is being used (^_^)d

 

[superpelon]

The spot where the Romans placed Pompeii is an excellent spot.

Coastal, on a hill, grasslands and forests and hills, silks, iron, horses... I WISH WE HAD SETTLED IT FIRST.

It could realllly help us in the long run, and the lack of a local iron will hurt them.

It might be worth the trouble culture flipping it.

Thanks for the Map, BTW. great job

 

[Civman2004]

Pompeii is in a great spot, but its strategic value to the Romans is the Iron. Take the Iron from them by settling near it and taking it is not nearly as urgent as it would otherwise have been - we can pick it off at our leisure.

 

[Gregski]

Well step one is to move a warrior on the iron tile to stop a colony by the Romans to be built. Military Minister: Please take note and act on it if possible.

As for culture flipping, I think the chances are virtually nil, even if divert all our attention to it. We have insufficient culture to do it and their city is closer to their capital than ours.
For conquest, there are two options I see:

1. Conquer now with our current units. This looks like a poor option as our military is still weak with not a lot of powerful units, as well as the Iroquois situation still hanging over our heads.
2. A scientific rush to Chivalry and Samurai. This is better as we have more time to do advanced planning.

Do not forget that if we attack the Romans, we will have to defend our cities from a flood of counter attacks and our cities are spread around a bit and our infrastructure is not quite there yet on the frontier areas.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Come on people; there are far more creative ways to deny Iron to the Romans than war or flipping the Iron-mine.

As long as the Iron isn't roaded, it doesn't give the Romans Iron (even if it would have been inside their cultural borders). If we prevent Roman workers to reach that tile we've succeeded. As long as the Iron isn't in Roman territory we can have a warrior on top of it.
When it does get into their cultural borders; we can use 3 units to prevent workers from the Roman core to road to Pompeii by blocking their path in a mobile-wall-tactic. A variant of the Jaguar-dance; the Warrior-Dance.

If they do succeed to connect their Iron to Pompeii, we can continue dancing to prevent Pompeii being connected by road to Rome's core.
If they do connect Pompeii to their core, some roads will go through neutral lands and they can be pillaged easily, without any trouble of war or reputations.

All these actions will delay the Roman Iron for many many turns. If we in the meantime pump Culture into Odawara, we might even steal their Iron, but that isn't very realistic. Delaying should be enough; if we can deny them Iron till we learn how to train Samurai, we'll have easy prey in the Romans.

 

[invy]

Nice point RM!

 

[superpelon]

Come on people; there are far more creative ways to deny Iron to the Romans than war or flipping the Iron-mine.

True. I like your proposals.

All these actions will delay the Roman Iron for many many turns. If we in the meantime pump Culture into Odawara, we might even steal their Iron, but that isn't very realistic. Delaying should be enough; if we can deny them Iron till we learn how to train Samurai, we'll have easy prey in the Romans.

But eventually the Romans will settle the coast north of rome and east of pompeii, meaning that the roman border will expand. And Pompeiis borders will expand soon as well. This means we might be forced into a war with the Romans... a war where Pompeii might have fortified veteran Legions w/city walls in Pompeii. Not a nice prospect.

I hate to say this, but we might find have to attack the Romans soon.


Another thing. Settling a city so that we take over the iron IS an option, but in my opinion, a very bad one. It ruins any chance of good city planning on this side of the continent. I STILL SAY WE SHOULD HAVE SETTLED POMPEII FIRST.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Agreed that we could have settled it first, but there were other choice sites. All we need to do is settle near it. If Odwarda was 1N, we would have gotten the iron on expansion. If we put a temple in there, it would have gotten the iron before Pompeii.
But using Odwarda, we cant. Perhaps another city squeezed in there would help.

SaaM
The Economic Girlie Man

 

[MSTK]

SaaM
The Economic Girlie Man

 

[Rik Meleet]

But eventually the Romans will settle the coast north of rome and east of pompeii, meaning that the roman border will expand. And Pompeiis borders will expand soon as well.

The cultural gap being closed does not mean the Iron is immediately connected. They need to road through junlge and hills first.

This means we might be forced into a war with the Romans... a war where Pompeii might have fortified veteran Legions w/city walls in Pompeii. Not a nice prospect.

We won't be forced into a war. It's our own free choice. And I fight fortified veteran Legions in 12+ cities with walls and the Great Wall every day with 4-4-2 units. But not today nor tomorrow nor any day of Term 2.

I hate to say this, but we might find have to attack the Romans soon.

I hate to hear it, so if you never mention or even think about it again, we'll both be happy.

Another thing. Settling a city so that we take over the iron IS an option, but in my opinion, a very bad one. It ruins any chance of good city planning on this side of the continent. I STILL SAY WE SHOULD HAVE SETTLED POMPEII FIRST.

Who ever wrote in stone that we can never ever abandon cities ?? And if you want to place a city to deny Iron to Rome, there's 1 location absolutely the best: Right on top of the Iron, on the Iron-tile.

I bet 1000 Gold coins we'll be far more happier if the Iron mine depletes on the Romans quickly then when we drastically try to prevent Iron going to Rome and succeeding.
And if it doesn't deplete; we had fun imagining it.

Come-on people; it is Iron, not a scarce resource. If we frantically try to stop Rome from ever getting Iron, we'll be too less focussed on other activities that, if Rome does get Iron through trade or Iron popping up in their lands, we'll be dead last (or with the Romans just behind us).

Focus on what we need !!
If we go for what we need we'll do better than all other civilizations, if we go for what a different nation needs, all other nations (except perhaps our target) will do better than us.

 

[RegentMan]

Good points Rik. The Romans will probably get some iron another way even if we snag Pompeii.

 

[superpelon]

Who ever wrote in stone that we can never ever abandon cities ?? And if you want to place a city to deny Iron to Rome, there's 1 location absolutely the best: Right on top of the Iron, on the Iron-tile.

Im stubborn guy. I really really HATE disbanding cities. Is... so uncivilized. And since we are playing Civ... that just doesnt work out right. But I understand that not everyone is as neurotic as I am, and that someday in this demogame... a city might be disbanded.

Anyway, the REAL reason I want pompeii is the silks.

(yeah right)

 

[Rik Meleet]

Im stubborn guy.

Meet another one !

Anyway, the REAL reason I want pompeii is the silks.

(yeah right)

Need advice on how to secure silks peacefully ? :Þ :b

 

[Cyc]

Meet another one !

Duh, I knew that already.

Need advice on how to secure silks peacefully ? :Þ :b

Uh, no.
But in Civanator's thread about our assault on the Roman's, I suggested that we start our aggression with swordsmen and horses. If we wait until we get Samurai, either someone else will take their land, we will find it too time-consuming, or some other complication will come up.

We need to appease the Iroquios (I'm sure CT will use everything in her power to start a war), and concentrate on the Romans with our Swordsmen.

 

[blackheart]

We need to appease the Iroquios (I'm sure CT will use everything in her power to start a war), and concentrate on the Romans with our Swordsmen.

Sorry, but I don't agree on appeasement here. The Iroquois are just as strong as the Romans and I would rather solve problems with whoever is openly hostile towards us first rather than putting them off and have them invade while our armies are marching through Rome's streets. You have to remember that the Iroquois UU is mobile AND strong, which means they can strike at our heartland before we can recall troops.

 

[Epimethius]

Far more likely than us somehow flipping Pompeii is Odawara flipping to the Romans. Its new, right next door, and far closer to Rome than to Fanatikku.