Pop Rushing
- Thread starter whitecow
- Start date
Pfeffersack
Deity
If you are in despotism, fascism or communism you use population instead of gold to rush(=finish in one turn) units or improvments.Generally it is considered to be weaker then rushing with gold because:
- it creates unrest
- only up to the half of a cities production can be used (depending on happiness situation)
- it creates economical damage through lower city population
- you often "waste" the sacrifized citizien partly (because every citizien counts as 20 shields)
- it creates unrest
- only up to the half of a cities production can be used (depending on happiness situation)
- it creates economical damage through lower city population
- you often "waste" the sacrifized citizien partly (because every citizien counts as 20 shields)
On the flip side. At the beginning stages of a game, when you're in despotism anyway, and you probably don't have connected luxuries yet, you probably don't want your cities to grow larger then maybe size 4 or 5. Pop rushing allows you to make use of population that might otherwise just send your city into civil disorder anyway.
Ideally, you'd want to use up that pop building workers and settlers, but it's not uncommon at all that I'll find that my city that's producing say a spearman gains a pop (which I may or may not notice ahead of time) and goes into disorder. If at the same time, I can complete that spearman in one turn blowing away that extra pop, I see that as good all the way around. This goes double if you're building a temple instead of a spearman.
But I tend to have a pretty agressive starting strategy, and using the whip tends to work. Sure. The people are unhappy for a bit, but with the exception of very fast growing cities spots (which you should turn into settler/worker factories anyway), you don't need to do this often enough to cause any signficant problems in terms of happiness. Long term, they're happier if you kill off a few of them along the way. Go figure!
Ideally, you'd want to use up that pop building workers and settlers, but it's not uncommon at all that I'll find that my city that's producing say a spearman gains a pop (which I may or may not notice ahead of time) and goes into disorder. If at the same time, I can complete that spearman in one turn blowing away that extra pop, I see that as good all the way around. This goes double if you're building a temple instead of a spearman.
But I tend to have a pretty agressive starting strategy, and using the whip tends to work. Sure. The people are unhappy for a bit, but with the exception of very fast growing cities spots (which you should turn into settler/worker factories anyway), you don't need to do this often enough to cause any signficant problems in terms of happiness. Long term, they're happier if you kill off a few of them along the way. Go figure!
Captain Murphy
Chieftain
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- Sep 2, 2003
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I think Pop Rushing is most effective in early game Despotism governments (for the reasons posted above) and for Fascism. In Fascism, it's very useful to pop rush walls, temples, libraries, etc in newly conquered cities - not only can you get some culture producing improvements rushed, but you can eliminate undesireable citizens in the process, so that city can get closer to a native majority.
For Communism, I don't think it's as useful, but it does provide good game balance. With communal corruption, those outlying cities can still be somewhat useful production wise, unlike with Despotism and (large empire) Fascism. Population rushing isn't as efficient with Communism, but I think it works as a counter-balance to Communism's war corruption benefits. I think Communism would be unbalanced if it had the gold rush trait (though I've never tested that, just a theory).
I like the pop rush feature of Fascism, though I inevitably wish for gold rush from time to time for Core cities that really need some improvment right now!
For Communism, I don't think it's as useful, but it does provide good game balance. With communal corruption, those outlying cities can still be somewhat useful production wise, unlike with Despotism and (large empire) Fascism. Population rushing isn't as efficient with Communism, but I think it works as a counter-balance to Communism's war corruption benefits. I think Communism would be unbalanced if it had the gold rush trait (though I've never tested that, just a theory).
I like the pop rush feature of Fascism, though I inevitably wish for gold rush from time to time for Core cities that really need some improvment right now!
In the Conquest game I played, I do a lot of Pop Rush because of the following:
1 pop = 19 shield = 19*4 = 76 gold (if you have 19 sheild left to complete pdtn, then you probably need 76 gold to rush)
1 pop = 10 food (with granary) (Despotism, cities with Pop 6 or below)
10 food = 76 gp therefore 1 food = 7.6 gp
In early game (Ancient age), you probably makes what, 20 gpt ?
Assume you have 5 cities, you can dedicate only 20 / 5 = 4 gpt to each cities.
Further assume the city you would rush to have 2 food surplus per turn, which is 15.2 gpt from this city alone. Compare to 4 gpt for $ rush, Pop rush has faster recovery rate.
To recover 76 gp = 76 / 4 = 19 turns (I use 4 instead of 20 here because I left other gold for rushing other cities)
To recover 1 pop in this city only = 10 / 2 = 5 turns
Of course, you still need to consider unhappiness, lost of commerce for 5 turns, etc.
19 / 5 = 3.8, pop rush is 3.8 times faster with the assumption of 2 fd per turn in one city and 20 gpt for entire nation.
This is another point why granary is useful (therefore Pyramid)
Regards
1 pop = 19 shield = 19*4 = 76 gold (if you have 19 sheild left to complete pdtn, then you probably need 76 gold to rush)
1 pop = 10 food (with granary) (Despotism, cities with Pop 6 or below)
10 food = 76 gp therefore 1 food = 7.6 gp
In early game (Ancient age), you probably makes what, 20 gpt ?
Assume you have 5 cities, you can dedicate only 20 / 5 = 4 gpt to each cities.
Further assume the city you would rush to have 2 food surplus per turn, which is 15.2 gpt from this city alone. Compare to 4 gpt for $ rush, Pop rush has faster recovery rate.
To recover 76 gp = 76 / 4 = 19 turns (I use 4 instead of 20 here because I left other gold for rushing other cities)
To recover 1 pop in this city only = 10 / 2 = 5 turns
Of course, you still need to consider unhappiness, lost of commerce for 5 turns, etc.
19 / 5 = 3.8, pop rush is 3.8 times faster with the assumption of 2 fd per turn in one city and 20 gpt for entire nation.
This is another point why granary is useful (therefore Pyramid)
Regards
Hi,
Just be extremely careful of your city unhappiness status. This is especially critical when you will change you government in a few turns later.
Some info are implied but not stated in my earlier post (help those who didn't know these yet) :
1) cost factor for hurrying your city production is 4 (found in the editor), meaning that for every shield left to be produced, you need to pay 4 gp to hurry the production.
2) Cities with more food surplus will have even better recovery rate.
3 food - 4 turns - 4.75 times
4 food - 3 turns - 6.33 times
5 food - 2 turns (settler factory!) - 9.5 times!
3) unhappiness for pop rush is 20 turns (if I remember correctly).
4) Score will be reduced for pop rush, as you have lesser happy / content citizens compare to $ rush.
5) In Anarchy, there will be no military police / luxury slider to help unhappiness issue. Don't over pop rush your city.
Correction to my error in calculation eariler:
19 / 5 = 3.8 times faster not 4.75
Anything I missed ?
Regards
Just be extremely careful of your city unhappiness status. This is especially critical when you will change you government in a few turns later.
Some info are implied but not stated in my earlier post (help those who didn't know these yet) :
1) cost factor for hurrying your city production is 4 (found in the editor), meaning that for every shield left to be produced, you need to pay 4 gp to hurry the production.
2) Cities with more food surplus will have even better recovery rate.
3 food - 4 turns - 4.75 times
4 food - 3 turns - 6.33 times
5 food - 2 turns (settler factory!) - 9.5 times!
3) unhappiness for pop rush is 20 turns (if I remember correctly).
4) Score will be reduced for pop rush, as you have lesser happy / content citizens compare to $ rush.
5) In Anarchy, there will be no military police / luxury slider to help unhappiness issue. Don't over pop rush your city.
Correction to my error in calculation eariler:
19 / 5 = 3.8 times faster not 4.75
Anything I missed ?
Regards
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