[NFP] Portuguese trade route restrictions

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Dec 29, 2017
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After some (pretty thorough :) ) researching regarding what prevents Portugal from sending international trade routes, I have (finally?) finished!
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Portuguese_(Civ6)#Casa_da_.C3.8Dndia
I have written it here under the Restrictions section, with photos provided and want to hear if you have any question that I may or may not answer. Is there any situation you want me to test? Since I am not proficient with Firetuner and only test "organically," there may be situations that require laborious setup, I may have to pass, but I will tell you what my guesses are in those situations.
It is quite a long and nerdy read, so you have been warned.
Thanks.
 
Not contradictory to anything you wrote, but important to remember: a trader doesn't have to move through a city center in order to have its movement range refreshed by a trading post. That's how I was able to trade with England and the Maya in my first game as Portugal - I got a trading post in Stirling, which refreshed my traders' movement on the feitortia next to the city center, allowing them to cross the ocean to the east.
Spoiler trader being refreshed at stirling w/o disembarking :
20210401025013_1.jpg

Spoiler minimap, for reference :
20210401025023_1.jpg
 
Good job!

I don't agree that Helmsman is the obvious promotion for a Nau, I prefer Embolon. I tend to find that with Helmsman it's hard to survive a couple of encounters with barbarians, which means your Nau doesn't get very far.

Third opinion: One with Helmsman, one with Embolon alternating, spending the building charges, then combine both units to a fleet.
 
Third opinion: One with Helmsman, one with Embolon alternating, spending the building charges, then combine both units to a fleet.

Also a handy trick with Victor's Embrasure promotion.
 
Good job!

I don't agree that Helmsman is the obvious promotion for a Nau, I prefer Embolon. I tend to find that with Helmsman it's hard to survive a couple of encounters with barbarians, which means your Nau doesn't get very far.
But with more movement, isn't it easier to just avoid barbarians in the first place?
 
Third opinion: One with Helmsman, one with Embolon alternating, spending the building charges, then combine both units to a fleet.

I usually play on the Continents map, and I need to go exploring to find the other continent(s) way before fleets are available.

Also a handy trick with Victor's Embrasure promotion.
Doesn't Embrasure not work with units that already start out with a free promotion? Haven't tried it with the Nau though.
 
Well that write-up is great, especially having all the district bonuses laid out like that, and all those screenshot examples. I'm going to have to bookmark that page :goodjob:

As for naval promotions, I support the "combined arms" approach as a general strategy I don't want to miss out on. Given the amount of Naus I built in my first Portugal game, however, I only gave a couple the Embolon promotion. The Nau that was created for me by a GA with +2 movement I gave the Helmsman promotion of course. And a galley with Helmsman gets a further +1 sight when upgraded to a Nau from the 2nd promo. With Leif Erickson you can get another +1 sight. So there's good reason in my mind to favor the Helmsman promotion, but not to the total neglect of having some combat promotions on hand to merge with when making fleets.
 
A great article. I wish that all documentation was this extensive.

I do have remark: you advocate against building Feitora's in City States several times. But since both Wisselbanken and the Democray ability also work on City States you are Suzerain of, you will often get better yields from them than from a foreign civ you are not allied to. And even so, the bonus of these is applied to both sender and receiver. I usually much rather buff a city state than another civ with food and production, even if they are my ally.
 
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Doesn't Embrasure not work with units that already start out with a free promotion? Haven't tried it with the Nau though.

I meant with units in general, it won't work with the Nau.
 
Not contradictory to anything you wrote, but important to remember: a trader doesn't have to move through a city center in order to have its movement range refreshed by a trading post. That's how I was able to trade with England and the Maya in my first game as Portugal - I got a trading post in Stirling, which refreshed my traders' movement on the feitortia next to the city center, allowing them to cross the ocean to the east.
Spoiler trader being refreshed at stirling w/o disembarking :

Spoiler minimap, for reference :
If it can, it will. Since Trading posts give extra gold to trade routes, and the game will automatically pick the route that yields the most gold from point A to point B, it will prefer Trading posts. The reason why your trader doesn't stop at Stirling because of the rule against embarking/disembarking onto the same tile during the journey, and because Portugal cannot connect Stirling to a nearby city using land. If you can give me the save file, I'd probably be able to look into it a bit more :)

Good job!

I don't agree that Helmsman is the obvious promotion for a Nau, I prefer Embolon. I tend to find that with Helmsman it's hard to survive a couple of encounters with barbarians, which means your Nau doesn't get very far.
I said Helmsman was the "standard" choice, which means I think if I have 10 Naus for example, there should be more Helmsman than Embolon. I say it is "standard" because Helmsman seems useful in all situations, even when there are Barbs around, since it helps you outrun the Barbs. Embolon is useful when you get surrounded and attacked by multiple Barbs, which can happen, but will not happen to every single Nau. In the case when you cannot run because of extensive ZoC, maybe Embolon helps you die a bit slower but doesn't guarantee your survival, but again, not really the problem you will have with every single Nau. Naus are naval melee, which are generally not very useful unless led by Harald, they don't do a lot of fighting, so preferring Embolon over Helmsman is like preparing a defensive army bigger than you need in case you get attacked. IF you get attacked, it's useful, but if you don't, it feels like a waste. Same here, if you get attacked by Barbs, it is helpful, but if you don't, it is not. I've played the game a lot on multiplayer, and I know different people have different preferences, and this is just personal, but generally, bonuses help you be proactive and take control of your own fate is better than defensive bonuses that help you react better to things that may or may not arise.
Since the purpose of the Naus is just to build Feitorias, it can do that with only 1HP and be deleted afterwards, since Caravels are still useless otherwise, sometimes to save time, I don't even promote Naus until they lose HP because they get hit.
Doesn't Embrasure not work with units that already start out with a free promotion? Haven't tried it with the Nau though.
It does. You will get double promotions. You can try with Janissaries.
Third opinion: One with Helmsman, one with Embolon alternating, spending the building charges, then combine both units to a fleet.
That is a great idea. The thing is you don't use naval melee units for fighting though. In a standard naval conquest game, I only sometimes use Caravels to capture coastal cities. Naus are basically identical to Caravels, but it can build Feitorias. In that case, this doesn't change a lot, if anything. If this is a naval ranged, absolutely.
A great article. I wish that all documentation was this extensive.

I do have remark: you advocate against building Feitora's in City States several times. But since both Wisselbanken and the Democray ability also work on City States you are Suzerain of, you will often get better yields from them than from a foreign civ you are not allied to. And even so, the bonus of these is applied to both sender and receiver. I usually much rather buff a city state than another civ with food and production, even if they are my ally.
I think that depends. I played my first Portugal game on Archipelago, the most water-y map out there, and unless the city-states were directly coastal, they wouldn't build Harbors. There is no CS type that favors building Harbors, commercial CSs build only C.Hubs. The second thing is CSs are always more underdeveloped than a city of a major civ, and as the article points out, international trade route yields depend on districts inside the destination. Later in the game when you have so much gold you don't know what to do with it all, you'd prefer your trade routes to have some other yields, and trade routes to CSs are always weaker in those regards. Besides, alliances with other civs give you both Open Borders (what you want regardless), a lot of extra yields to Trade Routes (something you also want a lot) and Diplomatic Favor for the World Congress. I'd not advise against Feitorias in CSs if you have an unlimited time window with this improvement, but you don't, so it is better to put a focus in some major cities of major civs other than spreading them out. Unless you have Kumasi in your game and you're the Suzerain of it, I don't really bother with building Feitorias in CSs.
 
I put a bunch of Feitoria in city states, mostly because I found it fun :p Although arguably another reason was that I was actually limited in which AI cities actually were on the coast. In my initial map, basically my left side of my continent had 2-3 of my own cities but only 2 AI cities I could reach (one ally, one not). On the right side, I had about 3-4 cities there, but again, only 2 AI cities that I could reach nearby. So basically to max out my routes, I had to trade with CS. And I was lucky that a barb camp spawned where I could easily fit 2 Feitoria even with them building a harbor, so it generated basically the same yields as trading with the other cities.

And, as mentioned above, funneling a lot of trade routes in Egypt's capital gives them an awful lot of yields, and I'm sure I lost our on some wonders because of it. So while I could send 30 routes to the same city, sometimes I'll take a few points less science and give the bonus to a CS instead.
 
Good job!

I don't agree that Helmsman is the obvious promotion for a Nau, I prefer Embolon. I tend to find that with Helmsman it's hard to survive a couple of encounters with barbarians, which means your Nau doesn't get very far.

Third opinion: One with Helmsman, one with Embolon alternating, spending the building charges, then combine both units to a fleet.

Gah got ninja'd !!! (though by many hours, so maybe ninja is not the right term lol); wanted to write this ;-) Agree totally

I usually play on the Continents map, and I need to go exploring to find the other continent(s) way before fleets are available.

One does not exclude the other. send your Helmsman's further and keep your Embolon's a little closer... And combine them later on ;-)
 
I think the general idea is that given the circumstances, you should go for putting Feitoria in civs and not city-states but I'm finding it easier to do the latter - the AI seems to always avoid coast in my experience and I have Gitarja in my current game with only one coastal city. City-State yields with the right cards can still be strong, and I'm lucky enough to have Kumasi in game as well so I'm reaping way more culture from them than trade route with a civ would bring. Portugal's science yields are usually high enough due to the Navigation School that the science bonus from routes to civs aren't too noticable imo.

If you're playing with Civilizations Expanded and find Australia in game, I recommend allying them and sending trade routes and feitorias to them since the mod gives all allied trade routes to Australia +4 food and +4 production, so Portugal can reliably get much more massive bonuses from him than anyone else I think.
 
Thanks for the write-up, didn't know that trading posts won't refule traders when cities only have one access point, that expains why I couldn't reach certain cities in my last portugal game.

I have another special case and I don't know the answer, maybe you can help:

I built the panama canal in Guarda so that it should have direct access to the ocean (through another lake and Porto), but I still cannot send any internationl trade routes from there. Is it because it would go through one of my cities or is there another reason.

Spoiler :
20210401231901_1.jpg
 
Do you mind providing me the save file please? From the picture I don't see any reason why Guarda cannot send international trade routes through the Panama Canal and then through Porto.
It must be another Portugal's specific restriction that I haven't thought of. If I have access to your save file, I can give a more definitive answer after playing around with it.
Thanks for the write-up, didn't know that trading posts won't refule traders when cities only have one access point, that expains why I couldn't reach certain cities in my last portugal game.

I have another special case and I don't know the answer, maybe you can help:

I built the panama canal in Guarda so that it should have direct access to the ocean (through another lake and Porto), but I still cannot send any internationl trade routes from there. Is it because it would go through one of my cities or is there another reason.

Here is more resources for you, just to show you that Canals normally shouldn't be a problem. Canals are basically water tiles, so if you replace all the Canal tiles in the photo with Coast tiles, the Trade Route will look like a natural maritime trade.
Portugal Trade Route Bug: Repro and Possible Cause - Imgur

EDIT: Quick question, I really hope the city of Guarda is the one that builds the Panama Canal. If indeed Guarda owns Panama, can you please try to give Porto away? From my research and the resource I supply above, I suddenly realize in no tested situation a Portuguese trade route can travel through 2 Portuguese cities consecutively. If you give Porto away and now Guarda can send Trade Routes, that will confirm my belief.
 
In case of AI's tendency of costal cities - from my experience, on a normal map, most of the AIs will only begin to develop costal cities if they don't have enough room inland. Playing as Portugal roughly means, sometimes, you need to wait a little bit for the AI to develop new cities after the Great Nau Purchase (or just plop down a costal city and sell it to the AI).
 
To add on to the restrictions, apparently if an AI civ is in the process of building a harbor, you can send a trade route to the city. Have that in my current game - an AI city one off the coast is building a harbor, and I can send it a trade route, even if they haven't completed it yet.
 
To add on to the restrictions, apparently if an AI civ is in the process of building a harbor, you can send a trade route to the city. Have that in my current game - an AI city one off the coast is building a harbor, and I can send it a trade route, even if they haven't completed it yet.

That's the way Harbors have worked for a while now. I believe simply placing the Harbor allows it to function for at least trade routes.
 
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