[R&F] Possible city ceding bug?

[ayronis]

In my last SP game, I conquered a city but had not decided whether or not to keep the city when I entered into diplomatic negotiations with the previous owner. We agreed to a peace treaty, and he ceded all the prior conquered cities to me, but the last one, which I had still not decided to keep or not, was not on the list. Once we agreed to the deal, I accepted the city and gained the city without the occupied status despite the fact that he had not ceded the city to me. This has to be a bug, right?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

In my last SP game, I conquered a city but had not decided whether or not to keep the city when I entered into diplomatic negotiations with the previous owner. We agreed to a peace treaty, and he ceded all the prior conquered cities to me, but the last one, which I had still not decided to keep or not, was not on the list. Once we agreed to the deal, I accepted the city and gained the city without the occupied status despite the fact that he had not ceded the city to me. This has to be a bug, right?

The bug is in the Cede function itself. Never ask the AI to cede a city to you. All that does is increase your Warmonger penalties. You're better off with cities that have not been ceded. There's no penalty to holding such cities (even though you would assume there would be).

The poor integration between the keep/raze option and the peace deal is a separate issue.

 

[ayronis]

Thanks Canuck. You just sent me down a deep well of reading confusion about the cede city function. It sounds totally broken right now. Is that still the case? Basically cede cities adds warmonger with no appreciable gain.

And the poor integration between peace deal and keep/raze basically makes no difference because cede city is already broken.

Sound about right?

 

[FearSunn]

The bug is in the Cede function itself. Never ask the AI to cede a city to you. All that does is increase your Warmonger penalties.

More info please.

 

[ayronis]

More info please.

There is definite confusion about exactly what the cede function *does* and is *supposed* to do. See these threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/what-does-the-cede-peace-deal-do.602402/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cede-city.628509/
https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/7tot84/what_does_cede_actually_do/

The opinion appears to be that you get a 8 warmongering points for conquering a city, and the city will not grow during the rest of the war. Once you negotiate peace, the city *will* grow again, but you keep the 8 warmonger points unless you give the city back in the trade deal (=occupied). If your opponent cedes the city to you in the peace deal, you get an *additional* 8 warmongering points, but the city now contributes to your score. I can't find confirmation of whether or not loyalty is affected by any of this.

It's all very confusing and sounds broken. And none of this is helped by the fact that you can negotiate a peace deal without an outstanding keep/raze conditional being resolved (my original issue). Ugh.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

There is definite confusion about exactly what the cede function *does* and is *supposed* to do. See these threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/what-does-the-cede-peace-deal-do.602402/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cede-city.628509/
https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/7tot84/what_does_cede_actually_do/

The opinion appears to be that you get a 8 warmongering points for conquering a city, and the city will not grow during the rest of the war. Once you negotiate peace, the city *will* grow again, but you keep the 8 warmonger points unless you give the city back in the trade deal (=occupied). If your opponent cedes the city to you in the peace deal, you get an *additional* 8 warmongering points, but the city now contributes to your score. I can't find confirmation of whether or not loyalty is affected by any of this.

It's all very confusing and sounds broken. And none of this is helped by the fact that you can negotiate a peace deal without an outstanding keep/raze conditional being resolved (my original issue). Ugh.

This sums up my understanding of the situation as well. The other two things I can add are:

• Loyalty is not impacted by whether the city was ceded/not ceded
• The "you occupy one of my cities" negative diplomatic relationship is not impacted by whether the city was ceded/not ceded

I believe there may be other situations where the Keep/Raze screen causes problems if it's unresolved, although I can't recall which they are at the moment. It's safest to always resolve the screen before doing anything else.

 

[Duuk]

Yeah... cede is horribly broken and doesn't work in any meaningful way.

 

[playshogi]

Also, even while I am still at war the occupied cities grow population. Or am I the only that experiences this?

 

[acluewithout]

Cede also doesn’t have any impact on loyalty, which I think is surprising. You’d think for the additional warmonger penalties when ceding that the city might be more “loyal” (or really, less loyal if you’d don’t cede). Alternatively, you’d think maybe not ceding would result in the city becoming a Free City.

My guess is that FXS haven’t done anything about this because they’re going to overhaul this whole area as well as diplomacy generally. I’m guessing loyalty may also get looked at here too - eg I could see the World Congress maybe taking actions that change the loyalty modifiers for certain cities (eg WC passes a self determination resolution).