kristopherb
Protective/Charismatic
What should the roman UU stats be?
normal swordsmen + ?
normal swordsmen + ?
Preats stats
- Thread starter kristopherb
- Start date
I was thinking about that today , perhaps the pret is overpowered . I mean its like basically getting a cheap maceman EARLY in the game . This is why they didn't give either of the Ceasers the Agg trait because that would be just ridiculous ( but curiously they let us do unrestricted leaders 
) . However getting a quicker GG can be just as devestating , especially with Rome since your almost obligated to go to war with those early prets . Just have a group of prets recieve teh GG's or one super ridiculous pret ( maybe a Dr. Scout to heal prets but at that early stage of the game , prets won't be hurting too bad) .
I'm dissapointed , they made the pret this crazy warmongering unit but held back with the Gallic Warriors ( but then again , I guess Boudica in charge of prets - see Boudica of Rome) would just be too crazy . Perhaps Prets should be Str 6 like swordsmen but with natural bonuses like maybe +50% city attack or something .
) . However getting a quicker GG can be just as devestating , especially with Rome since your almost obligated to go to war with those early prets . Just have a group of prets recieve teh GG's or one super ridiculous pret ( maybe a Dr. Scout to heal prets but at that early stage of the game , prets won't be hurting too bad) . I'm dissapointed , they made the pret this crazy warmongering unit but held back with the Gallic Warriors ( but then again , I guess Boudica in charge of prets - see Boudica of Rome) would just be too crazy . Perhaps Prets should be Str 6 like swordsmen but with natural bonuses like maybe +50% city attack or something .
DigitalBoy
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,347
Maybe make the praetorian a 7 
unit (without the +10% city attack) and revert the hammer cost to 40 
.
unit (without the +10% city attack) and revert the hammer cost to 40 .slaze
Deity
They're fine. prats can be beat. Stop beating up the incompetant AI
poll needs an as is: +2
poll needs an as is: +2
Roland Johansen
Deity
The legions of Rome were quite all round troops. They could fight well in the field and could conquer cities well and were excellent against other melee units. They were also well armoured and were thus not that vulnerable against ancient age archery. They weren't that well suited against quick nimble troops like horse bowmen. So, maybe a +25% vs melee, +25% vs archers (not longbowmen and such).
The +25% vs melee would make them good troops versus other melee troops, although axemen would still have the upper hand against them (actually axemen aren't that well balanced). The +25% vs archers would make them good for capturing cities. Horse bowmen would be a somewhat effective counter against them, especially shock horsebowmen. The anti horse promotion, formation requires more experience before it can be picked.
Normal hammer cost like the swordsman.
The +25% vs melee would make them good troops versus other melee troops, although axemen would still have the upper hand against them (actually axemen aren't that well balanced). The +25% vs archers would make them good for capturing cities. Horse bowmen would be a somewhat effective counter against them, especially shock horsebowmen. The anti horse promotion, formation requires more experience before it can be picked.
Normal hammer cost like the swordsman.
AfterShafter
Deity
I'd make them +7. Swordsman are a good unit... Swordsman roughly 15% better VS everything would be great. Does Rome really need +1 str ABOVE what would be *great* for their unit?
bonafide11
Worker
This poll is worthless because it doesn't have an option to leave them as they are...
aokces
Flanking III Submarine
What about another extra 5 hammer cost (10 more than swordsman) ?
azzaman333
meh
I'd give the praet 6 CR I and CG I.
CR I and CG I.
SpiritWolf
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
- Messages
- 255
I forgot who this came from, but...
Yeah, they're fine the way they are. There is a reason Rome was so dominant. One reason is because they had the best troops. Another, was because the Roman Military ethos was, "Fight till the Death." A good Roman would rather fall on his sword than surrender.
Praets are not really a problem anyways. They're scary, but hell, if you can beat the Romans, you're scarier. Remember, best way to beat Rome, is having allies and diverting their attention to them, while you clean up.
I forgot who this came from, but...
Over rated!
AfterShafter
Deity
One question I'd like to pose to all of the "They're fine" people... Whether they're fine as is or not, would a unit which is nothing but a +7 swordsman still be a good UU, in your opinions? Let's make it with a regular swordsman cost.
It would be acceptable for sure. Still a hell of a lot better than the Spanish or Russian UU for example...it wouldn't be the best UU in the game anymore but to be honest I never had any trouble beating praetorians before (I tend to favor Protective leaders in multiplayer) so leaving them as is seems like the best option.
Pretorians are good but you're not taking into account the fact that for those of us who do not save every turn and reload when something goes wrong they can sometimes be useless. I have had my fair share of games as Rome where i dont even get iron. Or where i dont get near enough to any enemies to declare war early on. Thats the whole point of hte powerfull early units. You dont always get to use them, late units are less powerfull but you will always get them. Thats the main difference.
AfterShafter
Deity
While true, this is offset to some degree by early UU's having all that much more chance of being a game breaker/maker than late game UU's. Late wars are often fought over a few cities... Early wars are often fought over whole empires, and substantial early game boosts that translate into late game dominance.
And let's face it - there are a *lot* of early game UU's out there, and probably not a one of them has the nasty combination of having such a long lifespan paired with such immense power in a variety of roles as the Praet... Pretty much all of your points against the Praetorian hit most other early UU's exactly the same, and most of them aren't nearly as dominant when you do get to use them.
Perfxion
Warlord
It wouldn't be realistic to make an army that was the most dominate for about 500 years now be second fiddle to the most powerful non UU of the early game. They nerfed the Preats enough in the game. Their leaders are now empire controling rather than just war. I only had one game in the last 15 times I played as Rome where iron and a close enough Civ were within marching distance. Plus there is a way to beat Preats. Let your horse archers weaken them, then let your axes kill them as is.
The only time I worry about Preats is if Rome gets the swordsmen quest and them starts a march on someone. Atleast 9 to 14 Preats marching down on a city is a tough thing to muster against.
The only time I worry about Preats is if Rome gets the swordsmen quest and them starts a march on someone. Atleast 9 to 14 Preats marching down on a city is a tough thing to muster against.
AfterShafter
Deity
If you want to base how the game plays in history, why stop there? Make America the clear most powerful nation in the world, China the up and comer, and have most of the nations be tiny little things of relative to a few bigger players, give them no hope of expansion, at a permanent tech disadvantage, and have their economies be a fraction of what the big players' are.
Oh yeah, sticking to history sucks from a gameplay perspective... And having one unit dominate for 500 years does too - unless of course you're in for an easy victory. The way this game is designed is that every unit should play "second fiddle" to another in some role.
As for your 1 in 15 games, your luck is astronomically bad. I usually play 3 human games, 14 civs total, huge map, big and small, standard resources, and on average two of us are going to war with swordsman. Iron just isn't that rare - though it certainly is possible to go without it - and unless you're playing on a map that's short on opponents, neither are people to stick pointy things made out of iron into.
Also, you'd worry about Praets every time you start by a human Roman player because, if they start building Praets and you aren't tailoring your Civilization to counter it, you lose.
