Privateers?

[Grand Cadfael]

Why is everyone against privateers? they look useful to me.For example if england is atacking france (your allie)and england is way more powerful it'd be easy to protect france while having it be safe for yourself> Or are my ideas flawed?

 

[sealman]

1) Because once a Privateer leaves the safety of its habor city, every AI civ knows it is there and it is only a matter of time before it is destroyed, even by your ally.
2) Because their attack is so low that they have a hard time beating a galley, let alont a frigate
3) Because their defense is even lower that they have a hard time beating anything.
4) Because, even if you attacked England with a privateer, England knows it was you and their attitude with you will decrease.

anyone else care to add more?

 

[Vegasgustan]

4) Because, even if you attacked England with a privateer, England knows it was you and their attitude with you will decrease.

anyone else care to add more?

I thought that was the whole thing with Privateers that they were anonymous? Did this change in later expansions? I am a Mac player and I use Privateers to block cities from sending out their ships and I have never had their attitude change towards me. They just keep attacking me from the city and nothing happens. Interesting...

 

[Willem]

I thought that was the whole thing with Privateers that they were anonymous? Did this change in later expansions? I am a Mac player and I use Privateers to block cities from sending out their ships and I have never had their attitude change towards me. They just keep attacking me from the city and nothing happens. Interesting...

Since they're attacking you and not the other way around, you're probably not getting an attitude effect. Try taking out a few of thier ships, you'll see it.

 

[Willem]

1) Because once a Privateer leaves the safety of its habor city, every AI civ knows it is there and it is only a matter of time before it is destroyed, even by your ally.

Just stack them up with a Galleon or Frigate. The AI will only attack if it's out there on it's own.

 

[ybbor]

I thought that was the whole thing with Privateers that they were anonymous? Did this change in later expansions? I am a Mac player and I use Privateers to block cities from sending out their ships and I have never had their attitude change towards me. They just keep attacking me from the city and nothing happens. Interesting...

it knows it's you, but doesn't decalre war because of it

 

[Vegasgustan]

I see. You know I don't think I have evey really attacked anyone with one. I kinda just use them for distractions or what-not.

Thanks to all.

 

[sadu]

If I can add down point number 5 to the list above, this would be the lack of bombard ability.

I don't rate them in Vanilla civ, but they are useful in C3C with the enslave ability (or maybe Im thinking of one of the mods I play).

Their use is limited to taking out obsolete galleys and the like from backward civs, with the opportunity of getting a freebie privateer - they do make ok scout ships, it's good to know who has a navy before they arrive at your door. They just don't stand up to other ships of the same vintage.

As has been said above, when you attack the AI with a privateer, they know it's you. Likewise, I can usually figure out who owns a privateer that attacks me (you might see it leave a city, or enter a stack of other ships etc). I think this is a good feature, unlike how the AI knows exactly what units you have in your cities.

 

[Admiral8Q]

PTW - I was in the modern age, and saw a bunch of transports from Japan (at peace) moving dirrectly for my capitol. So I built a few privateers and took out his transports before they could reach land.

 

[skywalker]

1) Because once a Privateer leaves the safety of its habor city, every AI civ knows it is there and it is only a matter of time before it is destroyed, even by your ally.

AFAIK, it doesn't even have to leave. And this is a big advantage, actually, because you can use it as a lure for huge enemy fleets.

2) Because their attack is so low that they have a hard time beating a galley, let alont a frigate

OTOH, knocking out a fully loaded Galleon is well worth the cost of however many Privateers it took.

3) Because their defense is even lower that they have a hard time beating anything.

That's why you attack or lure with them.

4) Because, even if you attacked England with a privateer, England knows it was you and their attitude with you will decrease.

Even better. They declare war, freeing you from the WW.

EDIT: oh, and did I mention that the AI will sometimes bombard a port with a Privateer in it, triggering a declaration of war against you? Another good way to dodge WW.

 

[Admiral8Q]

Even better. They declare war, freeing you from the WW.

EDIT: oh, and did I mention that the AI will sometimes bombard a port with a Privateer in it, triggering a declaration of war against you? Another good way to dodge WW.

Cool, I never knew this! A bit of a cheat bug though...

 

[sealman]

skywalker:

1-Back when I liked using Privateers, I have never seen the AI come to the cities where they were stationed. I have only noticed them come after my privateers once they leave the safty of my cities.

2-If it takes multiple privateers to sink a fully loaded galley, wouldn't it be cheaper just to build the frigates instead. You would need less of them then you would privateers. Plus, since when does the AI send a galley without 3 frigates protecting her? This means you would need to get rid of the 3 frigates before getting a chance to take out the galley.

3-I can't see the point of wasting shields to build a unit to lure the enemy to me. Seems pointless to me.

4-They don't always declare war and plus, you will still have WW, it just won't come as soon.


IMHO, to make the privateers useful, they would need a little better defence and attack. The ability to enslave (which was added in conquest). A faster movement rate. The bombard ability. The ability to heal while still at sea. And the ability to pick their targets, much like a submarine.

 

[skywalker]

skywalker:

1-Back when I liked using Privateers, I have never seen the AI come to the cities where they were stationed. I have only noticed them come after my privateers once they leave the safty of my cities.

I believe it is only a Conquests bug.

2-If it takes multiple privateers to sink a fully loaded galley, wouldn't it be cheaper just to build the frigates instead. You would need less of them then you would privateers. Plus, since when does the AI send a galley without 3 frigates protecting her? This means you would need to get rid of the 3 frigates before getting a chance to take out the galley.

Assuming you want to declare war.

3-I can't see the point of wasting shields to build a unit to lure the enemy to me. Seems pointless to me.

Not to you, but to a particular location. You can distract the entire AI fleet, pretty much, and bottle it up or get it out of the way. I admit, this is a bit of an exploit.

4-They don't always declare war and plus, you will still have WW, it just won't come as soon.

You get less or no WW when someone declares war on you.

 

[sealman]

...
You get less or no WW when someone declares war on you.

WW will still accumualte if you are declared war upon. At least it does for me. It just takes longer to feel the effects.

I will grant you the bottle-neck theory since it will work, however, I still say that to get effective use out of privateers, you need a whole bunch of them and those shields would be better off building a more traditional navy. (I am going on the assumption of a high water percentage map, or else why would you even consider making large number privateers, or other naval ships for that matter)

 

[skywalker]

WW will still accumualte if you are declared war upon. At least it does for me. It just takes longer to feel the effects.

Hence the "less or no". Decreasing WW is the whole point.

I will grant you the bottle-neck theory since it will work, however, I still say that to get effective use out of privateers, you need a whole bunch of them and those shields would be better off building a more traditional navy.

Actuallly, you can easily lure an enemy fleet all over the map with just one privateer.

 

[sadu]

War weariness isn't a problem if you manage it properly.

Ie, if you are in republic / democracy and choose to go to war, then you should only do so knowing you have the resources to meet your objectives quickly and make peace again (take a city / resource, stop an enemy army etc).

Especially at Emperor level, I find the AI will declare war for any tiny reason, and you certainly don't need privateers to get the AI grumpy with you.

The thing is, bang for your buck, privateers just don't measure up to frigates. Sure, you might be able to take out some loaded galleons, but you will take heavy losses with privateers, and how often do you get the chance to attack an undefended loaded galleon?

Instead of fluffing around with peacetime sneakiness, you are better off investing in a solid fleet of galleons and frigates so that you can protect yourself in the event that the AI declares war on you. With Frigates you can confidently sink his galleons, protect your galleons and bombard his coastal roads.

Privateers are average at best in times of peace, but in times of war, you will wish you stuck to the traditional navy. I'm not saying I never use privateers, because I do. But their use is very limited, and they just aren't reliable enough to build any sort of strategy on them.

I will grant that privateers are FUN. It's pretty cool forming an alliance with someone and then screwing them with privateers behind their back. And the enslave ability is inviting too.

 

[skywalker]

War weariness isn't a problem if you manage it properly.

Ie, if you are in republic / democracy and choose to go to war, then you should only do so knowing you have the resources to meet your objectives quickly and make peace again (take a city / resource, stop an enemy army etc).

Part of managing WW properly is preventing it or decreasing it in the first place.

The thing is, bang for your buck, privateers just don't measure up to frigates. Sure, you might be able to take out some loaded galleons, but you will take heavy losses with privateers, and how often do you get the chance to attack an undefended loaded galleon?

It's worth it if you are trying to hurt someone without going to war with them. Of course frigates have better odds of winning - but they're intended for use at different times.

 

[Roso]

If I want s.o. get angry with me => to declare a war I would insult him by demand some town, tech or whatever. I thought too that the AI doesn't know whose is this privateer. The only think they are useful in my opinion is in big groups against any kind of transport ships which are alone or poorly defended. I agree they are too week as looking that in their time the see units are frigates and not much later ironclads which are enough strong to defeat 1 before die. As I think to defeat group of 1 frigate & a galleon one would need number like 4. 1st to reduse hp of the frigate, 2nd to reduse galleon's hp unlikely to win because it will be bombarded, 3rd to defeat fr. 4th to defeat the galleon. I haven't seen so mush privateers together and if really as sealman says there are 3 frigates each of which will bombard once... As shields privateers are not much cheeper than frigates (50 and 60 shields), so I don't think it's worth to make privateers.

 

[Naval Freak]

here's the thing-privateers are good en masse. their low stats arnt good otherwise...

 

[TeeAhr1]

oh, and did I mention that the AI will sometimes bombard a port with a Privateer in it, triggering a declaration of war against you?

I've seen this more than once. AFAIK, however, it will only happen in a city where you have no other units.

However again, as I was writing that, I remembered a time when Japan attacked a naval stack upon which a privateer was the top unit. A wounded frigate made its def. bombard, and the Japanese declared war. FWIW...