Probably a stupid question(s)

[CaptainPatch]

I haven't experimented by doing this myself; I didn't want to possibly waste a good resource. But what happens when you build a city directly on top of a resource tile? Do you retain the resource? For example, right at the game start, if I build a city on top of a Gems resource tile, do I automatically get a Gems Luxury (even though I obviously haven't Researched Mining yet)? Or do you not get the resouce until you have Mining? Or do you never get the resource, instead getting just what the underlying terrain would provide?

Related secondary question: Given that you do get the resource automatically (either immediately or when the appropriate tech is available), has anyone ever seen a late-appearing resource (Horses, Iron, Coal, Oil, Aluminum, Uranium) appear inside the city center tile?

 

[Koiranputki]

I haven't experimented by doing this myself; I didn't want to possibly waste a good resource. But what happens when you build a city directly on top of a resource tile? Do you retain the resource? For example, right at the game start, if I build a city on top of a Gems resource tile, do I automatically get a Gems Luxury (even though I obviously haven't Researched Mining yet)? Or do you not get the resouce until you have Mining? Or do you never get the resource, instead getting just what the underlying terrain would provide?

Related secondary question: Given that you do get the resource automatically (either immediately or when the appropriate tech is available), has anyone ever seen a late-appearing resource (Horses, Iron, Coal, Oil, Aluminum, Uranium) appear inside the city center tile?

Heck...not stupid questions at all...it took me a while to work all that out.

If you drop a city on a resource....which I often do...you get the resource as soon as you research the tech. There are, though, complicated issues with extra hammers and extra food which I still don't fully understand....but I think the city tile always stays the way it is..you'll lose out a bit over the long term.

And your second question...yes...it isn't unusual to have coal or oil or aluminum popping up under a city and you get it as though it were improved right away...though again I'm not sure if you might miss out on a production unit.

I can't say I have had it happen with horses, but then usually you only have one city when you research that tech....

Oh yes....if you have such things showing up under Great Person improvements....there was a patch not too long ago that gave you those resources, otherwise you would have to destroy your GP improvement to get at the resource underneath...... And marble seems to be a bit of an oddity which I'm not sure about...

 

[Maxym]

You get both Rez and lux when they become available, that's why it was a very common tactic to settle calendar luxes especially marsh sugar as it would ake forever to improve.

Pay attention to late game strategic Rez appearance messages, you will see it appears underneath ur city and is available right away if you have tech.

 

[Gamewizard]

Also, I just discovered yesterday that if you play as Indonesia and settle your "spice island" cities on top of a luxury, then that luxury will be removed and replaced with one of the unique spices.

 

[Rathelon]

To answer your second question; yes, it's quite common (in my experience) for a latter-game resource to appear directly under an established city tile..

 

[phillipwyllie]

Just remember you cant improve the tile the city is on so you wont get any bonuses that improvement would've given otherwise. On the upside that tile cannot be pillaged so you wont loose out on that resource

 

[civ54lyfe]

Also, I just discovered yesterday that if you play as Indonesia and settle your "spice island" cities on top of a luxury, then that luxury will be removed and replaced with one of the unique spices.

dude...nice. thnx for that info.

 

[CaptainPatch]

Just remember you cant improve the tile the city is on so you wont get any bonuses that improvement would've given otherwise. On the upside that tile cannot be pillaged so you wont loose out on that resource

Well, if you can't, for instance Mine the Coal deposit under the city center tile, then you wouldn't be able to collect the several units of Coal that resource would have provided. You'd only be getting the Food and Production values of the undeveloped tile.

^^That^^ is what I was actually wondering about: Is the resource, Lux or Strategic, ever developed if there's a city center sitting on top of it? It's kind of hard to imagine, for example, that with the city being built there, that the Deer bonus Food resource would remain once the forest it was in is removed -- much less get the +1 Camp bonus for development.

 

[Scott Jegg]

You certainly don't get any bonus that applies to improvements (like camps, pastures, or plantations) via pantheons, even though you still get access to the resource. You will still get a bonus from a pantheon that is specific to a resource (eg. +1f +1c from gold/silver).

Depending on the resource, you will get extra gold in the city if the resource gives a gold bonus. I'm not sure if this also works for food and hammers. I haven't really paid it enough attention.

Resources are static on the map when the game begins, so it's quite common to find that I have planted a city on an as yet undiscovered resource. It's usually a nice bonus to have immediate access to it.

 

[Peng Qi]

There are, though, complicated issues with extra hammers and extra food which I still don't fully understand....but I think the city tile always stays the way it is..you'll lose out a bit over the long term.

It's not that complex. If the tile's BASE yield is higher than the yield of a city tile (usually 2-1-1 I think?) you get the higher base yield. For example, if you found a city on a hill with gold (0-2-2 base) the city becomes 2(base)-2(hill)-2(gold). If you found a city on a grasslands with a banana (3-0-0) it becomes 3-1-1.

You don't ALWAYS lose out in the long run. After all, if settling on that gold hill nets you access to even a normal hill at the cost of a worthless tile like ocean or desert, you have a net gain over-all.

 

[CaptainPatch]

You don't ALWAYS lose out in the long run. After all, if settling on that gold hill nets you access to even a normal hill at the cost of a worthless tile like ocean or desert, you have a net gain over-all.

That's the whole point for NOT building a city on a resource tile. Compared to how much you stood to be getting if it was simply a worked tile within the city's radius -- Luxuries, Strategic resources, Food, Production, gold -- you lose much of its long-term potential.

 

[Peng Qi]

That's the whole point for NOT building a city on a resource tile. Compared to how much you stood to be getting if it was simply a worked tile within the city's radius -- Luxuries, Strategic resources, Food, Production, gold -- you lose much of its long-term potential.

You misunderstand me. Let's say you settle on a hill-iron instead of a nearby hill because doing so adds three normal plains to your radius while cutting out three ocean tiles. I'll list each benefit and malus:

Benefits:
1. Your city yield will be 2-3-0 instead of 2-2-0 for a normal hill.
2. The iron will be connected immediately instead of needing a mine.
3. Your city has access to three plains it wouldn't have if you avoided settling the iron hill, so in the long run you'll have an additional 9-3-0.

Malus:
1. For every turn you work the normal hill tile, it will be one less production than you would have had if you'd settled the normal hill, but this is offset by the fact that the city is making +1 production every turn regardless of which tiles it is working.
2. If there are no other iron plots in the city radius, you will not be able to build a Forge (although if there is another iron tile and you do build a forge, it will apply to the city tile making it 2-4-0).

So basically, the only reason you'd avoid settling the iron in that scenario is if you really want a forge.

Settling a resource is a little less of a good idea when it won't be adding anything or adding much to the city's base yields, such as settling Citrus (which turns 2-1-0 into 2-1-1).

The bottom line is that if a perfect city spot has a resource on it or nearby potential city spots are bad for some reason, don't be shy about settling it.

 

[Dentalfury]

Also, I just discovered yesterday that if you play as Indonesia and settle your "spice island" cities on top of a luxury, then that luxury will be removed and replaced with one of the unique spices.

Was going to mention this as soon as I saw the thread title as I found out the hard way in my first game as Indonesia.

But yeah, as soon as you have the relevant tech for harvesting said resource settling a city on top immediately connects it for you.

 

[phillipwyllie]

@CaptainPatch: you get the resource(strategic or luxury) if the city is on that tile but you wont get the benefits for the improvement that is required to obtain the resource normally. I personally try not to settle on a resource as you pointed out you will loose out in the long run.

 

[Knut_Are_M]

in most games getting an early bonus offsets the long term costs.
Settling on hill iron means you loose out on nothing really. other then the potential 2-3 Production from a mine.
Settling on deer is not recommended period. 2-1 bonus tiles should not be settled.
Settling on wheat is not recomended. dessert wheat still gives 2-1 for some reason.
Settling on marble can be useful for the early Wonder bonus in the Capital.
Settling on marble With a lot of stone nearby also gives you access to the stone Works alot earlier at calendar.
Settling on grassland luxes and hill luxes is recommended.
Settling on grassland horse/iron should be avoided in most cases. the long term cost is quite high here for little to no short term boost.

Also something that is very important when settling. hills gives alot more early defence to a city.
Try to settle Coastal cities inside bays when possible. Both for city potential and city defence.

 

[lindsay40k]

Peng Qi notes that settling on Iron with no other Forge resources in range means not building a Forge later. Does this hold true with Mint, Stoneworks, Stable etc?

 

[Knut_Are_M]

you know you could just test it out With Advanced eras and test it yourself.
But no you can build forge ,mint,strone Works, Circus etc by settling on a tile.
That is why settling on marble can sometimes be Nice just to get that stoneworks up super early in the Capitol.

 

[Pembroke]

Malus:
1. For every turn you work the normal hill tile, it will be one less production than you would have had if you'd settled the normal hill, but this is offset by the fact that the city is making +1 production every turn regardless of which tiles it is working.
2. If there are no other iron plots in the city radius, you will not be able to build a Forge (although if there is another iron tile and you do build a forge, it will apply to the city tile making it 2-4-0).

3. Because the city tile is always at least 2-1-1, settling the resource tile may give you an overall total loss of the same if the city radius also includes a worthless tile that could have been turned productive had you settled your city there, instead.

It sometimes makes sense to drop the city on a very poor tile e.g. desert or snow instead, that might neighbor the resource hexes you actually want to grab. This shouldn't, of course, be overused. As you say, the overall city location is usually the deciding factor as you want to grab the most beneficial working plots in the city radius. Also, in the early game the unimproved immediately accessible values are more important than possible maximized values through improvements that aren't available until much later, which is why many prefer a hill start for their capital for its immediate production boost.

But in some situations you may want to use the city itself as a "tile improvement".